Electrical problem in the middle of the season.

the Norwegian

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So, in the middle of the ridingseason (here in Norway it is pretty short) and i got this problem with the electrical system.

I was out riding when the power to the coil dissapered suddenly, i have checked the switch on the handlebar and it looks ok,
but no power reaching the switch.
I i am not able to sort it out.

Previous owners has also did some cut and patch before i got the bike so things isnt easy to sort out.

As a solution to do a temporary fix for the season, can i use one of the fuses to feed the switch/coil so it power on with the ignitionkey?


There is also another issue, there is power on the startersolenoid at all times so the startermotor run's either the ignitonswith is
turned on or off when i press the starterbutton.

Is it possible to do the same temporarly fix there to replace the red/white wire on the solenoid?

Here is a schematic i found here earlier.
 

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OK you have a 78 Special................that's a great bike and I can help you a lot, because I own the same bike.

No power reaching the kill switch:

That is classic loss of power due to those original 4 position (glass fuses) fuse panels. I'm guessing you still have the stock 4 position fuse holders. They can look normal but have high resistance which causes excessive voltage drop. This is a no brainer.................cut that fuse panel out and replace with automotive blade type fuse holders.

With this problem, when you turn on the ignition key, you should measure full battery voltage at the common supply side of the ignition, signals and headlight fuses (brown wire). That is true unless the main 20 amp fuse/fuse holder itself is bad.

No, don't try to do a temporary fix with another fuse. Buy 4 in line blade type fuse holders and do it right the first time. Solder the splices and use heat shrink tubing for insulation.

Next problem..........power always on at all times to the starter relay (aka solenoid). That is really a bad thing to have. That PO is an evil man for having messed with the wiring that way.

First thing...................your bike needs to have a safety relay on the right side, if wiring is to be corrected to normal. Does your bike still have one? The SR has 5 wires.
Yellow,black, blue/black and 2 red/whites. As a test, unplug the SR. With it unplugged, is there still 12 volt power at the red/white wire at the starter relay?? Power there should be gone with the SR unplugged. Is it gone?
 
Great, thanks for the reply.



The SR is still there, when i disconect it the power disappear at the R/W at the solenoid.
The colours on wires are a little different than your's. I got Red, Black, Yellow, R/W and Blue/Black.

Ohh, and the fuses:
Mr.Frankenwire has done some work there too.
The original 4-fuse panel is removed and replaced with two!? single holders and the colours dont match the schematic for the SE posted in first post.

It goes like this:
Fuse 1: Brown + Brown > fuse > Brown. (brown and brown before fuse has power when ignition is on)
Fuse 2: Red > fuse > Red + Red/Yellow. (red before fuse has power constant)


And i got +12V at the ignition switch.

When i turn on the ignitionswitch the taillight lights up but not the frontlight, the headlight failure indicator are on when ignition is on.(i'm happy with headlightswitching as it is)
The headlight works, controlled by the handlebarswitch independent of det ignitionswitch, all the lights works ok.

The turnsignals are removed.

This messy wiring has worked flawless all the time since i bought it, the only practical issues has been the malefunction of the starterbutton
and the anoying headlight failure indicator light.

The only work done by me is installing the Pamco a few years back.

Regarding the colour on the wires, is this a harness from a later model?

BTW, i took a peak in your album, that is one damn good looking SE!
 
The PO certainly has been busy molesting the wiring.:eek:

So he has somehow changed from 4 fuses to 2 fuses. As a start you need to buy 1 more inline blade type fuse holder. Disconnect the red/yellow wire where its joined to the red wire,as that is wrong. Connect the newly bought inline fuse holder to the junction of the 2 brown wires. Connect the other end of the new fuse holder to the red/yellow wire.

That new fuse holder is now supplying the headlight, the Safety Relay and the starter relay red/white wire. With that done you should now find that the red/white wire terminal at the starter relay only has voltage present when the key is on and the engine is off.

Its still a mystery as to what happened to the 4th fuseholder?? It appears that the ignition fuse holder is missing. The ignition fuse should be connected to the 2 common brown wires, and the other side of the ignition fuse should have a red/white wire going to the kill switch. Does the kill switch still have a red/white wire connected to both sides of it, and does the kill switch actually kill the engine?? Since your original problem was loss of power to the ignition coil, the PO has somehow rewired power to the ignition coils , which has now fail completely.

Quote: "When i turn on the ignitionswitch the taillight lights up but not the frontlight"
that is normal, since the headlight does not turn on until the alternator produces power and voltage on the yellow wire operates the safety relay. But since you have been using the manual headlight switch, you may not be aware that the alternator is not producing voltage on the yellow wire.

If you were able to start the engine, you could do a test, but since you say the ignition coil has no power it will have to wait for now. The test would be to leave the manual headlight switch OFF, and start the engine. If the alternator is producing power on the yellow wire and the safety relay is working, the headlight will come on.

That's enough to work on for now.
 
You should make a simple drawing on paper, so that you can easily see what the path of current flow is.

From the battery + terminal a red wire goes to the main 20 amp fuse. From the 20 amp fuse another red wire goes to the ignition switch and to the rectifier output. The load side of the ignition switch has a brown wire that goes 2 places. It goes to the voltage regulator, and it goes to the input of 3 fuses. The point where the brown wire connects to input of 3 fuses is the "common" point. The output of the 3 (10 amp) fuses goes to headlight, signals, and ignition. A red/yellow wire goes from the headlight fuse to the safety relay and to the "Lights" switch. Note that the red/yellow wire that leaves the headlight fuse, becomes a red/white wire at the safety relay. A brown wire goes from the signals fuse to flasher relay/horn/brake switches etc. A red/white wire goes from the ignition fuse to the kill switch. Another red/white wire leaves the kill switch and goes to the ignition coil(s).

Get that drawn out on paper, and then try to determine where the ignition coil is getting power from.
 
Thank you for taking the time. It's nice to read and imagine what powers what in word form.It helps me imagine where everything flows to and follow colors.I'm trying to bypass all the safety switch stuff. Just want it minimal to pass NY inspection.Headlight, tail, brake,blinkers and horn.
 
oldskoolxs, do you have a thread of your own on this issue? If so we can help you there. A bit less confusing to have one thread=one subject.
If you want a very basic wiring diagram look on the "Some Wiring Diagrams thread"
It has them for most years as stock and several that are modified. I like #4, it shows a basic points ignition, seperate reg and rec. In boxes it has the later TCI and combo reg/rec, Just swap boxes to match what you have. In the upper right corner is the starter and safety relay.
Are you using the starter? If so the safety relay is a good thing, it protects the gears and shaft in the starter system from damage from starter over run.
Leo
 
You should make a simple drawing on paper, so that you can easily see what the path of current flow is.

From the battery + terminal a red wire goes to the main 20 amp fuse. From the 20 amp fuse another red wire goes to the ignition switch and to the rectifier output. The load side of the ignition switch has a brown wire that goes 2 places. It goes to the voltage regulator, and it goes to the input of 3 fuses. The point where the brown wire connects to input of 3 fuses is the "common" point. The output of the 3 (10 amp) fuses goes to headlight, signals, and ignition. A red/yellow wire goes from the headlight fuse to the safety relay and to the "Lights" switch. Note that the red/yellow wire that leaves the headlight fuse, becomes a red/white wire at the safety relay. A brown wire goes from the signals fuse to flasher relay/horn/brake switches etc. A red/white wire goes from the ignition fuse to the kill switch. Another red/white wire leaves the kill switch and goes to the ignition coil(s).

Get that drawn out on paper, and then try to determine where the ignition coil is getting power from.


So, i have some progress here.
Spendt most of the weekend throwing away wires, conectors and other things that should not have been there at all.
I also found the missing red/white to the killswitch, belive it or not, it was hooked to one of the wires for the taillight.

I also soldered/heatshrinked the wires where needed and put on new bladetype fuses. (didnt find a box that i liked so for the time being i'm using the type thats "hangs" on the wire)

So everything is great, almost:
Headligt still has to be switched on, that's fine by me(if it dosent harm anything else?)
The failurelamp is still on.

Every thing else works as intended.

Is there any reson to worry about the headlamp failure light?
 
Well done getting it sorted out:thumbsup: I assume you mean you have power to the coils and the engine starts now.

Are you saying that (with the "Lights" manual switch off) the headlight will not come on
after starting the engine? That could mean the yellow wire from the alternator is not sending proper voltage to the safety relay. You should be able to measure about
14 volts AC on that yellow wire, with the engine idling. With the 14 volts AC present, the SR should switch voltage onto the blue/black wire at the SR. The voltage on the blue/black wire goes to the Reserve Lighting Relay (if your bike still has one) and then goes to the Hi/Lo headlight dimmer switch, which then sends power to the headlight.

If that is all working, then you should not have Headlight Failure, unless your headlight actually has a failed low beam.
 
Yes, i got power to the coil and i got power on the red/white wire on the starterrelay only when ignition is turn on(that sorted the starterbutton issue).

The headlight still have to be turned on/off with the switch on the handlebar. And the headlightfailure lamp is still on.
 
Here's a diagram that better illustrates how the fuses were originally hooked up. A red wire directly from the battery feeds the main 20A fuse which runs to the key switch. Switched power from the key switch runs back to and splits to power the other 3 fuses .....

SpecialFuses2.jpg


If you eventually do get a fuse block, you'll need one with separate inputs and outputs for each fuse, not one with one input and multiple outputs.
 
fuse block, not one with one input and multiple outputs.

Those work fine. make one end fuse the main fuse, feed it from the battery to the "output side" that then powers all the other fuses. I seem to find the "non-ganged" fuse boxes, I drill the hole in the tabs on one side a bit bigger, run a bare copper wire straight through them all and solder it to each tab, creates the buss, neat and tight, wire as above.
 
Even if the engine is running i have to turn the headlight on with the switch on the handlebar.

It's ok for me. (if it dosent harm anything else?)

Yes I understand that, but it may indicate that the alternator is not generating enough voltage to operate the safety relay. Do you measure 14 volts at the battery with the rpm at 3000+ rpm?
 
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