AUTOMAN
XS650 Addict
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Emulator Knock off
- Thread starter dave_a
- Start date
The ringed piston adapter. That had to be made specifically for your application, didn't it?
That depends upon what modern stuff. For example the RE Interceptor front suspension is only slightly better than the XS650. The fork tubes are fatter and it has an 18 in front wheel. I believe the RE retains the progressive springs and damper rods.
Inside a racetech emulator
this one is for a 41mm suzuki fork.
this one is for a 41mm suzuki fork.
AUTOMAN
XS650 Addict
The piston on which the ring is installed is stock. New ring made from phenolic tubing bored and turned on a mini lathe with expanding rubber mandrel.
The spring seat top has been chopped to open up the EMUL and seat it.
AUTOMAN
XS650 Addict
I purposely left out the brand of fork. Really does not matter, as long as EMUL fits/seats and functions. Mine are Kawasaki 36mm H1.
How well it does is limited as jetty said. We are putting lipstick on a pig.
If the forks do not have a ring, then worn out bore/piston is not going to help.
AUTOMAN
XS650 Addict
Guy's and gal's, I was wondering what is the attraction to these things?
Are the forks that furked?
Mine were too squishy on hard braking, to the stops almost. A 4" travel and an instant 2" used up, with sag, on braking hard is not what I wanted.
Other than that I was happy standing on the wheel. Makes for lousy handling BTW.
I wanted fast front brake action, but not solid.
Watta youse looking for?
Are the forks that furked?
Mine were too squishy on hard braking, to the stops almost. A 4" travel and an instant 2" used up, with sag, on braking hard is not what I wanted.
Other than that I was happy standing on the wheel. Makes for lousy handling BTW.
I wanted fast front brake action, but not solid.
Watta youse looking for?
The 34mm forks are primitive. Soft springs, a lot of compression damping, no top out springs.
They don't get better with age.
I had 50% sag (of 5" travel) just sitting on it...plus a lot of dive as you mentioned. I tried adding preload to the OE springs. Any additional preload over the OE 3" spacer coil binds the spring, reducing fork travel. I started with a 4" spacer, almost came off the bike going over a manhole cover.
Today - have 30/40lb/in. progressive rate springs - a definite improvement over OE.
The purpose of this thread is to figure out how to install the Taiwan emulators in the 34mm forks. The resellers of the valves do not recommend this application. Only on 35mm forks.
IF - possible, one can improve XS1 to TX forks for $72* instead of spending $450+ with Racetech.
*plus machining of damper rod & adapter.
They don't get better with age.
I had 50% sag (of 5" travel) just sitting on it...plus a lot of dive as you mentioned. I tried adding preload to the OE springs. Any additional preload over the OE 3" spacer coil binds the spring, reducing fork travel. I started with a 4" spacer, almost came off the bike going over a manhole cover.
Today - have 30/40lb/in. progressive rate springs - a definite improvement over OE.
The purpose of this thread is to figure out how to install the Taiwan emulators in the 34mm forks. The resellers of the valves do not recommend this application. Only on 35mm forks.
IF - possible, one can improve XS1 to TX forks for $72* instead of spending $450+ with Racetech.
*plus machining of damper rod & adapter.
Not sure if this will work with the XS1, XS1B forks??
I don’t think you can tune with progressive rate springs.
Dive under braking can the reduced be increasing fork oil level. 130 mm is the middle setting in the Race Tech emulator tuning guide. It’s set with the fork tube collapsed and the spring removed.
Dive under braking can the reduced be increasing fork oil level. 130 mm is the middle setting in the Race Tech emulator tuning guide. It’s set with the fork tube collapsed and the spring removed.
Marty, the springs were $40, not Racetech's $150. I thought I'd roll the dice, because I'm not sure I can get the emulator on the 34mm damper rod. I had the oil at 5"/127mm. No joy, because the OE springs were junk.
That’s all fine and good. Those new springs may do the job for you. I have some experience among people who have tried to mix the technologies. I have first hand knowledge that it doesn’t work. Also, Race Tech says it doesn’t work. I only wish is to make that known.
Back when I did this, Traxxion was much easier on my wallet for the springs. They asked the right questions and recommended springs. If it comes to that, give them a call.
It appears there are two ways to get an emulator to work in 34mm forks:
Option one: 34mm damper rod - add a cup like adapter seat to accept the emulator, while shortening the damper rod overall length to compensate for the height of the emulator. A sealing ring cut into the cup would be a worthwhile addition. I believe this is what Racetech does.
Option two: Use a 35mm damper rod, because it already has a cup & sealing ring. Several major challenges. The cup/piston is too big by .804mm and the working OE clearance between tube & damper cup is 1.16mm so a diameter reduction of 1.96mm is necessary. I don't have one in my hand, so Gary would have to tell us if a 1mm cut on the piston circumference would leave enough "meat" to function. The rod's also too long by 27.81 with the emulator on it. So cut an inch off. Probably a cut & weld in the middle. This option looks like a non-starter to me.
I can tell you that the Emulator does fit in the narrow part of the 34mm tube with .004-5" clearance which is why I started this thread. But for now, the project is stalled unless I can find an adapter (from RT?) or a machinist who wants to make one. To Marty's point, I'll just run her till she blows.
The good news is the carb butterfly spindle seals just arrived by UPS. I'll throw the fork back together, put it on, pull the tank and carbs off {again!} and fix the carb air leaks.
SPECIAL THANKS TO gggGARY for going out to the frozen parts shed in Baraboo to pull parts and measure tubes and rods.
Sorry dude, I owe you a beer or three!
Option one: 34mm damper rod - add a cup like adapter seat to accept the emulator, while shortening the damper rod overall length to compensate for the height of the emulator. A sealing ring cut into the cup would be a worthwhile addition. I believe this is what Racetech does.
Option two: Use a 35mm damper rod, because it already has a cup & sealing ring. Several major challenges. The cup/piston is too big by .804mm and the working OE clearance between tube & damper cup is 1.16mm so a diameter reduction of 1.96mm is necessary. I don't have one in my hand, so Gary would have to tell us if a 1mm cut on the piston circumference would leave enough "meat" to function. The rod's also too long by 27.81 with the emulator on it. So cut an inch off. Probably a cut & weld in the middle. This option looks like a non-starter to me.
I can tell you that the Emulator does fit in the narrow part of the 34mm tube with .004-5" clearance which is why I started this thread. But for now, the project is stalled unless I can find an adapter (from RT?) or a machinist who wants to make one. To Marty's point, I'll just run her till she blows.
The good news is the carb butterfly spindle seals just arrived by UPS. I'll throw the fork back together, put it on, pull the tank and carbs off {again!} and fix the carb air leaks.
SPECIAL THANKS TO gggGARY for going out to the frozen parts shed in Baraboo to pull parts and measure tubes and rods.
Sorry dude, I owe you a beer or three!
FYI, the added length of the emulator can be removed from the preload spacer or spring free length. The added length from the emulator DOES NOT in any way require shortening the damper rod!
Budget improvement was the goal.
As you may know, Mikes and Yamxs650.com don't recommend emulators in 34mm forks. But the emulators fit the 34mm tube!
gggGary and I have been talking about adapting a 35mm damper rod in a 34mm tube. The later rod offers piston,ring, seat for the emulator and maybe a topping spring.
The 35 rod is 14mm longer. The emulator 14mm tall. My new springs have eliminated all spacers. So cut the rod, spring or cap, right? The 35 damper rod piston diameter also needs to be turned down in a lathe 2mm+/- to fit. All in all, not feasible.
After exploring possibilities, the best option (imho) is to send Racetech money! They say the can put a Goldvalves on 34mm. $450+/-
Or put that R6 front end on Craigslist on.
As you may know, Mikes and Yamxs650.com don't recommend emulators in 34mm forks. But the emulators fit the 34mm tube!
gggGary and I have been talking about adapting a 35mm damper rod in a 34mm tube. The later rod offers piston,ring, seat for the emulator and maybe a topping spring.
The 35 rod is 14mm longer. The emulator 14mm tall. My new springs have eliminated all spacers. So cut the rod, spring or cap, right? The 35 damper rod piston diameter also needs to be turned down in a lathe 2mm+/- to fit. All in all, not feasible.
After exploring possibilities, the best option (imho) is to send Racetech money! They say the can put a Goldvalves on 34mm. $450+/-
Or put that R6 front end on Craigslist on.
AUTOMAN
XS650 Addict
fair warning; modern calipers are quite deep, designed to fit mags that have a skinny profile near the hub. Spoke wheels are much wider at that point, the calipers will likely interfere with a spoke wheel.
