Ever inherited a project? Yeah, me too. 75 XS650 Frankenbuild. Brat? Tracker? What?

buzzword

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I saw your post in the other thread:

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showpost.php?p=463735&postcount=1822

And, thought of putting a response here. A loose sprocket nut guarantees oil leakage on the left side. Hopefully that's all it is. Otherwise, if the clutch pushrod seal is indeed leaking, consider these:

The bushing behind the seal. The pushrod should show very little, if any, wobble in that bushing.
Let me know if there's any grooving of the pushrod in the seal area. I'll send you another if necessary.
Check for dimpling on the end of the 8mm adjuster screw. That dimpling could cause side deflection of the pushrod.

Hope all's going well for you...
Heyo! Thanks for the heads up on the loose sprocket nut. The seal was probably fine, in retrospect - got it torqued up today, and added a bit of blue loctite for posterity.

Two things - I think the bushing is indeed borked based on play, and I am pretty sure I messed up the lip seal when I installed the new one, even though I followed every tutorial I read on here - chamfered the edge, etc. I ordered two new seals, and two new bushings - just-in-case insurance. Should be here Friday.

As such, it's leaking from the clutch rod, and the leak is even worse than it was when the sprocket nut was loose. The rod itself seems OK - maybe some slightly less-polished areas are visible on it, but nothing dramatic. Thanks for your kind offer as well, but I think it's OK for now. Here's a pic of the leak.

62962F6E-D1AB-4D2E-8680-62212050DFB6_zpsbf9nnsgk.jpg


Things are going OK - daughter is 9 months old now, and she'll be walking any time now. Got laid off a month or so ago along with 25 others, but that's the breaks of startup life. They grew too fast, and it bit all of us in the rear. Oh, well.
 
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TwoManyXS1Bs

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Wow, great pic of that area. Yep, visible dribbling. That's about how much mine leaked before I found this forum and their reveal of the undocumented pushrod bushing. It was an OEM split bushing, and as soon as the drillbit dug in, it spun. So, I pulled as it spun and it simply slipped out.

Nice trick. Found at the bottom of MikesXS Tech page:

http://www.mikesxs.net/faq.html#tech_tips

And, Carbon's video: http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14269
 

buzzword

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Wow, great pic of that area. Yep, visible dribbling. That's about how much mine leaked before I found this forum and their reveal of the undocumented pushrod bushing. It was an OEM split bushing, and as soon as the drillbit dug in, it spun. So, I pulled as it spun and it simply slipped out.

Nice trick. Found at the bottom of MikesXS Tech page:

http://www.mikesxs.net/faq.html#tech_tips

And, Carbon's video: http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14269
It was leaking quite a bit more than that when it was running, and made a pretty decent puddle. That pic was shot with my iPhone 6S with a flash, and yeah - pretty decent!

Thanks for the links - I'll do that additional prep work with the dremel and emery file when I replace the seal and bushing this weekend. Gettin' kinda sick of taking that left cover off!
 

buzzword

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Well, the 11/32 + 23/64 trick almost worked - had to use a big ol' screw extractor and it all turned out gravy.

94906769-2FE4-4706-9ED7-B600D570F1F4_zps3c8bnth6.jpg


With the old seal out, I can see where I screwed the proverbial pooch and sliced off the lip seal by accident. I really thought I deburred it well enough, but apparently not!

26F0A7DD-9340-42E1-B21B-1F0D00AC2532_zpsleirqbdf.jpg


All good now - haven't ridden it yet, but I'm sure it's fine.
 

buzzword

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So there are no more leaks I can find, but now I've got other issues...

In the last couple days I have spent several hours chasing a strange electrical shutoff issue. The symptoms are intermittent - under acceleration, it's behaving as if someone is actually turning the ignition switch on and off, sometimes rapidly. So the bike dies, then comes back on, and so forth - sometimes several times in a row - all while riding. Initially I thought this was some kinda fueling issue, so I re-set the idle, drained the bowls, and replaced the fuel lines and filters (again). Speaking of idle, it idles just fine - this only happens when I'm on the gas. So, I watched my running lights when it happened, and sure enough - the electrical is shutting down momentarily, then coming back on, then shutting off again, and so forth.

The electrical on this bike is simple. All grounds are clean, touching bare metal. All connectors (gold bullet connectors) are tight, free from corrosion, shielded, and greased with dielectric.

In short, and for context, this is the bulk of the electrical on the bike other than wiring: Motogadget m-unit, Pamco high output ignition, Hugh's PMA.

I have some suspicions:

1. Reg/rec from the HHB PMA kit might be fried, and overcharging the battery, and it's allowing an over voltage to the Motogadget, which shuts off when it sees
more than 18v. Because the Motogadget is instantly self correcting with solid state circuit breakers, it turns back on immediately, experiences the same over voltage condition, and shuts off again. So, either the reg/rec is not shunting the excess to ground because of a bad ground (checked this - not the issue) or its fried in general. It has plenty of airflow, and has worked flawlessly until Friday.

2. Pamco high output coil may be fried, but by way of an intermittent internal short. Readings are good when I tested with ohmmeter - 24k at the plug wire ends, 14k at the plug wire terminals, 2.6 at the primary terminals, and infinite between the core and primary terminals. If it's shorting intermittently it might cause the Motogadget to shut off, and then come back on as previously described.

3. I'm using a ballistic Evo3 LiFe battery, and it's mounted directly to the frame for all intents and purposes. I wonder if vibration screwed it up internally and is allowing it to overcharge - seems the least likely culprit but worth investigating.

I checked every connection on the bike last night, and they're all solid and tight. So, I plan to check the reg/rec involvement by disconnecting the positive lead and seeing if it still skips when I accelerate. Not sure how else to check the coil other than what I've already done with the multimeter, but the plug wires are a bit discolored - see below. Battery swap is easy - I'll try that too. I think @fox23 was onto something switching to an Antigravity battery, since the cursory reading I did suggested it might be less susceptible to vibration. If the battery turns out to be the issue, I will make the switch.

Plug wire at the coil side - they both have this discoloration:


image.jpeg


...and how everything sits under there - anyone see anything obvious?

image.jpeg


Anyhow - since I drafted this, I tested the reg/rec and either it, or the stator, is causing the issue. I rode around on just the battery and it ripped! No stumbles or hesitation. Also, once I unplugged it, the positive connector on the reg/rec looked a little scorched - never seen that before! Any thoughts, @Punkskalar?

I got my new seat installed finally - great work on this @westonboege -- it's awesome! Night and day difference in comfort and fitment. Took some finagling to make the rear fender section work, but it's done!

image.jpeg


So, I guess I gotta find a reg/rec somewhere, but I'll test this one first. To summarize, I suspect based on the Motogadget cutout behavior + burnt looking plug that it's drastically overcharging. Any additional ideas anyone?
 
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TwoManyXS1Bs

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Hey, BuzzWord. As a matter of standard practice, you may want to re-route your sparkplug wires, perhaps using wire separators like those found on cars, and get them away from your harness wiring. Inductive/capacitive coupling could send spurious signal spikes in your harness's DC lines, that may distrupt semiconductor devices connected to them, like the solid-state rec/reg and M-gadget stuff. As I understand it, the M-gadget uses a network topology running atop power wiring, similar to X10 networks and model railroading's DCC system. As such, spurious injections of ignition static could interfere with its communications. Here's a similar warning from PowerDynamo:

PD-Caution.jpg
 

scabber

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Just read all 5 pages of your rebuild thread. Like what you have done with the bike. like the new seat. If the black wire coming from the coil mounting bracket is a ground wire. the coil doesn't need to be grounded. It might be a good idea to put a volt meter on the bike so you can monitor the voltage while riding.
 

buzzword

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Hey, BuzzWord. As a matter of standard practice, you may want to re-route your sparkplug wires, perhaps using wire separators like those found on cars, and get them away from your harness wiring. Inductive/capacitive coupling could send spurious signal spikes in your harness's DC lines, that may distrupt semiconductor devices connected to them, like the solid-state rec/reg and M-gadget stuff. As I understand it, the M-gadget uses a network topology running atop power wiring, similar to X10 networks and model railroading's DCC system. As such, spurious injections of ignition static could interfere with its communications. Here's a similar warning from PowerDynamo:

View attachment 85998

Good lookin' out, 2M -- will change that post haste. I used to have issues with that on my 64 C-10's 235ci straight six with the old style, cloth-wrapped plug wires, but never again after I switched to a modern silicone shielded wire. I guess I assumed these wires would be similarly shielded, but that may not be the case. Never seems to have caused an issue to date, but that may just be because things don't cause problems ... until they do! I think I am going to order some black ones anyway - the yellow is kinda un-subtle.
 

buzzword

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Just read all 5 pages of your rebuild thread. Like what you have done with the bike. like the new seat. If the black wire coming from the coil mounting bracket is a ground wire. the coil doesn't need to be grounded. It might be a good idea to put a volt meter on the bike so you can monitor the voltage while riding.

Thanks! Appreciate the feedback - the seat is indeed a night and day difference.

The black wire is a ground for the headlight + turn signals + bar switches, and the coil mounting bolt just happens to be a convenient place to ground them. It might not be the best spot actually...

I ordered a voltmeter so I don't have to rig up my multimeter in a really weird way to see voltage while riding :) I felt like Doc from Back to the Future when he had all that extra crap on the DeLorean.
 

buzzword

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Today I replaced my HHB PMA kit reg/rec with a new unit that @Punkskalar sent - thanks, Hugh! New one is on its way back via USPS tomorrow. I made a new, heavier-duty charging harness as part of this effort as well. Overcharging + sputtering/electrical shutoff seems to be resolved, and the bike seems to be running even better than it ever has. I also went through and checked the resistance on every ground connection, and made a few new connections to better grounding locations which seems to have helped as well.

Here's where my reg/rec is mounted - everything clears, wires and connectors are tucked nicely, no pinched anything. I can't remember if I posted a pic of this previously or not...

58F6166A-EAB6-4A8A-939C-A29D40112C54_zpsjr1qy9uf.jpg


Finalized the mounting on my new Counterbalance seat - need to take better pics at some point...
38F60885-9D41-42DC-8960-85A9A899D527_zpsrdfopxu8.jpg

A145D4C6-27B4-4B7B-8E58-44940B5964F1_zpsg1gdosv9.jpg


Switched out my black oxide steel rotor bolts for some shiny new titanium jobbers. Put them in with some copper anti-seize that we used to use at the bicycle shop for mounting Ti bolts into aluminum and steel. Should work great! Two of the steel bolts on the left side wouldn't budge, then the allen heads on them stripped, and I have yet to get them out. I broke a #3 bolt extractor in one of them, which is gonna make for an interesting removal process at some point. It never ends.

23A1161D-3B2B-4929-B401-EADA4980A51F_zps1vxnzepa.jpg


Got my new (to me) Star Black 1975 tank from @gggary - it's definitely well loved, with a few bumps and bruises. Should polish up OK, and the inside - while rough - should turn out just fine with the ol' vinegar + salt trick.

90EE749C-AD66-436C-BAE2-F6343132B7A1_zps3bc4skne.jpg
344D21CF-D20B-4200-8BA9-29A7D86F0331_zpsr28fvuuf.jpg


Per an earlier entry, all my oil leaks seem to have dried up thankfully! I still have a few dumb little things to finish:
  • More secure mounting for rear fender - I'll post my solution once it is done.
  • Install new (to me) single-outlet crankcase vent.
  • Shorten kickstand. Someday.
 

scabber

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The tank will look good on the bike. The single outlet crankcase breather looks better and works better than the two outlet. It also makes it easier to remove the carbs. Well worth changing as you know. Your doing a great job. :cheers:
 

CoconutPete

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Looking good! I have 2 questions:

Is the single outlet carb breather something from another bike? Or a custom creation?

How is that small bit of rear fender mounted? Did you weld brackets on?
 

buzzword

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Looking good! I have 2 questions:

Is the single outlet carb breather something from another bike? Or a custom creation?

How is that small bit of rear fender mounted? Did you weld brackets on?

Single outlet breather is from a later XS650 - kinda tricky to find for a decent price in my experience, they're always $$ on eBay. I bought mine from a user here a few months ago.

Fender is mounted with a bolt through the rear of the frame loop and a supportive bracket underneath. It works, kinda, but I'm gonna reinforce it which I'll detail here when I'm done.

I think my coil is fried actually - bike was running great yesterday and earlier today but now it's not getting spark on the right cylinder. UGH!
 

buzzword

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Occam's Razor. I think I think too much.

Coil is fine, fancy NGK BPR7EIX plug on the right side was fried. Not really fouled but actually not even firing! Pretty weird - anyone ever seen that on a high end plug? New plugs, set the gap to .038, and I'm gone!

I also bought a pair of Autolite AP63 plugs - we'll see how these do for the next month or so. I do know I need to actually use a manometer on the carbs - seems like the right side is slightly off.

New pics...

69B0A3E9-2703-4E82-ABD3-665406443F61_zpsfrhzbcsi.jpg

4208681C-A3AB-475E-9E86-AFD685F63B17_zpsz8hf2hza.jpg

1388AE99-1D9A-4DA8-9901-731E926DE44C_zpsgbwun4cb.jpg

F5F9551B-8397-4D10-8583-8D7265BBB664_zpsiudonpde.jpg


Also put on some shorter Uni pods - mine were pretty hammered, and one had some burnt parts on it from falling off onto the exhaust. I've still not had any trouble with burning myself on this exhaust but I'll probably put a shield of some sort on there. I went to a swap meet 2 weekends ago and found some Honda CL450 heat shields, but the guy wanted $100 for them! Neeeeewp.

And, no - I'm not wrapping these ;)
 

TwoManyXS1Bs

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Occam's Razor. I think I think too much.

Cro-Magnon corollary: "I think, therefore I'm confused."

... Coil is fine, fancy NGK BPR7EIX plug on the right side was fried. Not really fouled but actually not even firing! Pretty weird - anyone ever seen that on a high end plug?

Glad you caught that. Good heads up for us. Would like to know more about that.

I had a misfiring BP7ES. Crack in the porcelan. Don't see that very often.

What have you done to your XS today?

... I've still not had any trouble with burning myself on this exhaust but I'll probably put a shield of some sort on there. I went to a swap meet 2 weekends ago and found some Honda CL450 heat shields, but the guy wanted $100 for them! Neeeeewp.

Now, THAT's a good idea. Heat shield from Honda CL, or such...
 

buzzword

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Now, THAT's a good idea. Heat shield from Honda CL, or such...
I'm on the hunt but those particular heat shields are apparently like gold now! I haven't found anything I really like in the aftermarket so I may end up making something myself.

Per the plug issue, I'll try and get some pix of the old one since I saved it. I've never had one abjectly fail like that in any kinda engine! Pretty weird. I'll look for hairline cracks per the link you sent.

Bike looks great!! Looks like a blast to ride!!

Thanks in no small part to your efforts - the seat is fantastic! It is great fun, just seems to be little stuff here and there that knocks it out of commission for a day or two.

I think the left side of my bars are slightly bent up from when it fell over onto the lady's car when it was parked. Stupid kickstand!! I have another set but the idea of threading that internal wiring again gives me nausea. Couple more pics...

CEFEC008-57AA-4FC3-AB8F-87D38ED46868_zpsbyvrxhvn.jpg

EF315538-A799-47F0-9BBC-D56B8FFC401D_zpsdbxw6bet.jpg

10821A47-854A-4D72-AD50-1A61330B8AE4_zpsefufhl3q.jpg
 
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buzzword

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Looks awesome! Bet it feels awesome too!
it sure does, and thanks! Your build is excellent as well - I took some inspiration from it for sure!

Here's a pic of how I mounted the fender on the rear. First I held the fender section up under the frame loop with clamps and marked the radius, then cut it with a sawzall to match the frame loop. Then I made a beefy "washer" out of 3/4" x 1/8" mild steel for the M6 Allen bolt through from the top in the center, and then drilled/tapped the fender and inner frame so I could use an M5 bolt to secure the sides of the fender piece. Here's a view from underneath:

C2FD9E10-F0C9-4865-9521-AD665800C639_zpsctg4nkrt.jpg


Looks OK from the top side, but this piece is kinda janky in my opinion. Might try to find a nicer fender with a better radius and mount it in a less silly way, but it works for now. Here's a closeup that shows where the center bolt down from the top sits - right behind the seat. I'll likely replace that bolt with one that has a lower head profile at some point.

103ADBE9-AA2C-4A36-A11A-CF0D1482D2C0_zpsz0amhwt0.png


As an aside, I like but don't love this taillight - I've had to re-solder the bulb terminal three times now. Maybe something different sometime.
 
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