First project, 10 days

denis

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I apologize for any repetitive questions/concerns ahead of time.

Hello everyone. On March 11th I am looking to undertake a tremendous project, stripping my 79 xs with the intention of overhauling the entire bike from the ground up. As a college student with limited resources and an ambitious but basic sense of mechanics I am devoted to overcome and triumph over this objective. In other words, I have two weeks to complete this project and prove to my folks that I can be responsible and actually finish a project that I started. Before I completely extinguish all hope you, as the reader, initially had for me, I am going to change the topic and tell you a little about myself. I am a full-time student, twenty-two years of age attending a college in upstate New York. I am a graduate of Wyoming technical institute, also known as Wyotech, graduated with a degree in Automotive technology - sadly three years have passed and my retention ability is not as good as I'd hoped. So with my Clymers manual at hand I spend the entire length of last summer dicking around with my first motorcycle. I purchased it for 800 dollars and devoted many sleepless nights to have it run, but it persisted to sing the same old song and shit on me continuously; I would fix one thing just to find out that another thing went. My summer quickly came to an end and I had to return to school in late August leaving the beast behind. Nearly everyday I think about what needs to be done and how do I go about doing so, repetitively writing out the same old list of needed parts. That is my intro in a nutshell.

I am looking for any help, in any form, to make this project a reality.

This is what I intend on doing, feel free to jump in with your two cents.

Firstly, I am looking to start off with rebuilding the top end with hopes of not touching the bottom nor the transmission. I am not familiar with problematic areas so any pointers as to what I should pay close attention to would be extremely useful. Because my funds are limited I prefer to salvage parts instead of purchasing new parts that I may not necessarily need. I am curious what powertrain modifications would be deemed worth it while I have access to the internals. I am completely open to suggestions. If I do choose to keep the stock components then I am simply going to clean the pistons, replace the rings, valve seals and machine the seats.

Secondly, I want to re-do the entire harness removing all of the accessory wiring and replacing the ignition with a pamco ignition unit. The previous owner installed a Boyer unit but feel that the unit is not working properly. It often gives off electrical feedback when the ignition key is in the on position. It sounds like a faint ticking sound in one of the cylinders. In addition, I feel as if the spark is abnormally weak. As far as the fuel, the previous owner installed VM 34s that I insist on retuning and need the most help in this category.
I am planning on running the VMs with XS Pods, stock motor, and a MAC 2-1 exhaust (MAC muffler). IF ANYONE HAS ANY INSIGHT ON WHAT JETS I NEED FOR THAT SET UP THAT WOULD BE A GREAT HELP.

Lastly, I am concerned with the frame and suspension. From my understanding the previous owner replaced the swing arm bushings and the steering bearings. What I want to do is improve the ride-ability and handling so I need some suggestions as to what parts I should consider in improving the dampening of the forks and rear shocks.

I may be leaving information and concerns out so feel free to provide feedback and ask as many questions as possible. I am relying highly on the XS community to please come together on this one and try to help a fellow brethren out. Before I forget, I also appreciate any advice for special tools and tips that I will require in preforming any task discussed. I want to start ordering the parts as soon as possible because time is of the essence.

I think that might be it.. so before I go I attached some photos

bike2.jpg

bike.jpg

bike4.jpg
 
thank you very much inxs. whom do you recommend going through for parts? I typically go with mikes.
 
Hey denis, thats quite the ambitious project you are undertaking with a 2 week deadline. Not saying it can't be done but you better start ordering parts very soon as you will find sometimes the parts you need are out of stock or backordered for weeks or even months. One other thing, make sure your wallet is fat as these bikes can eat up cash in a hurry. One thing for sure you came to the right place for advice. Good luck with your build and post pictures along the way.................BG
 
Just asking a few questions that may allow you to cut corners.

Firstly, I am looking to start off with rebuilding the top end with hopes of not touching the bottom nor the transmission.
Why? Do you have bad compression? Is there a lot of carbon inside the combustion chamber? If your compression is a bit off, try re-torquing your head, and check compression again. Often, after sitting, this is a requirement. If you have acceptable compression at that point, i'd suggest just getting the brass washers for the head bolts, loosen everything off, then re-torque to spec with the brass washers replacing the rubber/steel ones on the head bolts. These Cylinder Head Washers are what i'm talking about.

If you find compression is not improving, strip the top end off, clean the head, check the valve guides. If they're good, just clean the carbon off of everything, change the valve guide seals, lap the valves, hone the cylinder, clean the top of the pistons (which will tell you what size piston you have), get rings for that size, replace the bottom gasket, replace the head gasket, put sealant between the valve cover and head, and call it a day.

The above will be about a day of work time, but you'll have to pause to order the rings *after* you know what size your cylinder is.

Additionally, an Engine Oil Seal Kit is invaluable, and you'll need it. Just replace the ones that are leaking, leave the other ones alone.

Secondly, I want to re-do the entire harness removing all of the accessory wiring and replacing the ignition with a pamco ignition unit. The previous owner installed a Boyer unit but feel that the unit is not working properly. It often gives off electrical feedback when the ignition key is in the on position. It sounds like a faint ticking sound in one of the cylinders.
IIRC, Boyers do this. They spark a few times when first powered - is this what you're talking about?
In addition, I feel as if the spark is abnormally weak.
What's your test for this? If you can gap to .040 and still see a spark, you're good to go.

As far as the fuel, the previous owner installed VM 34s that I insist on retuning and need the most help in this category.
I am planning on running the VMs with XS Pods, stock motor, and a MAC 2-1 exhaust (MAC muffler). IF ANYONE HAS ANY INSIGHT ON WHAT JETS I NEED FOR THAT SET UP THAT WOULD BE A GREAT HELP.
Well, at least you're not running open pipes. You'll have some chance at retaining your sanity - but i would leave the stock airboxes in initially, get everything running, *then* go to pods.

Reading your project plan, while i applaud your ambition, i'm worried about a few things.

You're changing a lot of different systems at the same time. This will result in a *lot* of debugging of multiple systems later. It may be a better (and more time saving, believe it or not) plan to do one thing at a time. Do the engine first, put everything back to stock (with airboxes and exhaust) and get it running. Then do your wiring. Then do the custom exhaust/pods. Each of your project chapters has it's own oddness and gotchas, and all that interrelation of little things not right may drive you nuts in the end. And there's definitely something psychologically reassuring about "i did this, and it was running. Then i did this, and it's not. therefore, i can reasonably assume the new thing i did was what broke it".

good luck!
 
You're changing a lot of different systems at the same time. This will result in a *lot* of debugging of multiple systems later. It may be a better (and more time saving, believe it or not) plan to do one thing at a time. Do the engine first, put everything back to stock (with airboxes and exhaust) and get it running. Then do your wiring. Then do the custom exhaust/pods. Each of your project chapters has it's own oddness and gotchas, and all that interrelation of little things not right may drive you nuts in the end. And there's definitely something psychologically reassuring about "i did this, and it was running. Then i did this, and it's not. therefore, i can reasonably assume the new thing i did was what broke it".

- this is good advice...changing a lot of things at the same time can be very problematic even if you know what youre doing
 
Why the two week deadline? Spring break?

So basically, what you're looking to do is:

  • Rebuild the top end
  • Simplify the wiring, install Pamco unit
  • Re-jet your VM Carbs
  • Improve handling

I think it's all doable in two weeks as long as you have a good handle on the parts you'll need and get them ordered as soon as (or before) you need them.

Make a day by day schedule for yourself and set a false deadline of 7-10 days. That way you'll have some room at the end to actually meet the real deadline. Good luck with the whole thing, and take pictures as you go if you have time! :thumbsup:
 
Wait, just re-read the title, 10 days. Do you have two weeks (14 days), or 10 days, or two weeks with both weekends on either end (16 days)?
 
Your problem is what to buy before tearing down. and on some parts you won't know till after opening up and that will throw your time frame, as you have limited funds you need to make a check list and costing to match your funds

You have no front fender so you need a fork brace as a minimum to improve your handling, with limited funds, next progressive springs and next emulators. you can do the emulators at a later date in 2-3 hours

Some VM34 jetting set ups
Royfisk
my config is
piolet jet 22.5
air screw 1.25- 1.75
slide 2.0
p6
needle 6dhs
clip pos #3
main jet 190-200
float height 25mm
this is on a stock 650 with ported head and super trapp exhaust, with 1.75 extended intake manifold and factory air box mild cam. This set up works good.

VM34:
Mains: 180 to 190 is most probable.
Pilots: 20 to 25.
Needle jets: P5 or P6 both work well.
Needles: 6F9; start tuning
in the middle notch.
Slides: the generic 2.5 works fine.
Air jets: remove.
Richard

VM34
Main: 180
Pilot: 25
Needle Jet: P6
Jet Needle: 6F9
2.5 slide
That is at 1000 ft elev. depending on your exhaust should be very close.
Dwayne

VM34:
2.5 slides, 27.5 to 32.5
pilots, P-5 or P-6 needle jets, 6F9 needles, 180 mains, air correction jets
removed (standards are 2.0). Usual disclaimers

Once you get your head off check the side play on the con rods, this will indicate if the bearings on the crank will need to be replaced.
 

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Why? Do you have bad compression? Is there a lot of carbon inside the combustion chamber? If your compression is a bit off, try re-torquing your head, and check compression again. Often, after sitting, this is a requirement. If you have acceptable compression at that point, i'd suggest just getting the brass washers for the head bolts, loosen everything off, then re-torque to spec with the brass washers replacing the rubber/steel ones on the head bolts. These Cylinder Head Washers are what i'm talking about.

If you find compression is not improving, strip the top end off, clean the head, check the valve guides. If they're good, just clean the carbon off of everything, change the valve guide seals, lap the valves, hone the cylinder, clean the top of the pistons (which will tell you what size piston you have), get rings for that size, replace the bottom gasket, replace the head gasket, put sealant between the valve cover and head, and call it a day.

The above will be about a day of work time, but you'll have to pause to order the rings *after* you know what size your cylinder is.

Additionally, an Engine Oil Seal Kit is invaluable, and you'll need it. Just replace the ones that are leaking, leave the other ones alone.


IIRC, Boyers do this. They spark a few times when first powered - is this what you're talking about?

What's your test for this? If you can gap to .040 and still see a spark, you're good to go.


Well, at least you're not running open pipes. You'll have some chance at retaining your sanity - but i would leave the stock airboxes in initially, get everything running, *then* go to pods.
Sadly I don't have the stock boxes, just the pods.

I would like to start off by saying that I greatly appreciate everyone's feedback. I haven't had much time to absorb all that was expressed on this thread but I am looking to devote this weekend to purchasing parts and rationing my vacation time. Before I move on to the technical material I wanted to clarify my time frame; After double checking my schedule It seems that I was right about the 10 day frame. I didn't have time to look over the preliminary literature that inxs was kind enough to reference earlier in this thread but from the feedback that I have received I made a slight revision in my plan of attack. Since I have a tendency of biting off more than I can chew, I am going to start with the most logical approach that could potentially save me a lot of time; getting an accurate read on my compression is going to be my top priority. The only problem I can forecast is requiring parts late into the build thus not meeting my deadline. Overall I am not too worried as far as time is concerned. Now, on to other points, I haven't got any expert opinion on the state of the Boyer unit currently on the bike,but I have personally experienced many kickback issues due to the ATU aside from the faint ticking that only started happening after a few joyrides last summer. As mentioned before it seems that its coming only from one of the spark leads or from inside the chamber. Im debating if maybe doing the bare minimum would be a better option considering my time restriction. If all in favor then I am going to do the tests, tuning the carbs (KEY) and the wiring. Does anyone know of any good sites for wire rolls and miscellaneous connectors?

@650Skull, the following set ups are intended for what modifications, if any? Also, do you know who carries a good variety of VM components?

VM
Mains: 180 to 190 is most probable.
Pilots: 20 to 25.
Needle jets: P5 or P6 both work well.
Needles: 6F9; start tuning
in the middle notch.
Slides: the generic 2.5 works fine.
Air jets: remove.
Richard

VM34
Main: 180
Pilot: 25
Needle Jet: P6
Jet Needle: 6F9
2.5 slide
That is at 1000 ft elev. depending on your exhaust should be very close.
Dwayne
 
Sudco for the carb bits.
Whats your elevation?
Those settings should be a reasonable start, with a free flowing exhaust & pods unless your up in the clouds!
Have a good read HERE there is also a link to the 650 garage carb guide there, an excellent bit of work by the authors! :cheers:
 
@yamaman
Sudco for the carb bits.
Whats your elevation?
Those settings should be a reasonable start, with a free flowing exhaust & pods unless your up in the clouds!


on average am look at an elevation of 1000ft, the town that I am currently located is about 300. I am running a MAC 2-1 (MAC muffler) and XS Pods on a stock motor. If you have anymore input on the bits/settings feel free.
 
No 2 set ups are the same so these are a guide only, i Live in Australia so someone over in the States can help with sourcing parts better, give royfisk a pm.......... .Read the links to VM carbs that INXS and Yamaman gave you, important reading.............probably take you 2 weeks to absorb all the info :laugh:
 
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