Grounds so important

[member3480]

When you do a rewire its so important to go over the grounds. They will drive you crazy...
I been working with JAY a harness I did and its a full blown one with all the bells and whistles ... He is new to wires and it took some emails back and forth but hes getting it and GROUNDS are his demon HAHA
When you buy a headlight that only has two wires one is HIGH BEAM and the other is LOW BEAM ......BUT WERE is the GROUND... The bucket or bolt is the ground so if you don't have METAL trees there is no ground so you have to create one. You can add a wire to bucket and ground it. Same with TAIL LIGHTS with only two wires you hope the frame is a good enough ground but sometimes not.
I did a test 3 years ago on a frame that was always blowing fuses and lights the frame itself was a POOR ground and if you took a OHM meter and placed one end on the rear of the frame and one on the neck METER DIDN'T MOVE.... But if you went halfway to the backbone to the rear the meter moved... WHAT THE HELL! so I had a couple junk frames and took a 17" section out of frame split it in two and the RUST inside was way more than I thought . COULD RUST stop the ground? So I tested the inside and sometimes on the rust I got a connection and other time I didn't. So did I prove something MAYBE...
So try and get your grounds together and a bare spot and JAY you GOT a A for effort and not giving up and LEARNING
PLUS don't be leave the colors on lights. BLACK can be HOT and BLACK white could be ground OR Yellow or BLUE???? So test that tail light or headlight before you put it on bike ....MARK the wires makes it sooooo easy.
HAVE FUN WIRING UP YOUR BIKE

 

[pamcopete]

When looking for a ground, the following are not grounded or only have an incidental ground:

1. Rear fender. (rubber mounts)
2. Headlight bowl. (Incidental through Ball bearings in triples)
3. Handlebars. (Rubber mounts)
4. Gas tank. (Rubber mounts, static danger))
5. Entire front end, forks, fender etc. (Incidental through Ball bearings)
6. Carbs. (Rubber mounts)
7. Battery box. (Rubber mounts)
8. Triple trees. (Incidental through Ball bearings)
9. Speedo, tach cases. (Rubber mounts)
10. Ground for starter button. (through handle bars to left side controls and wire to frame)
11. Yes, the swingarm is not grounded. Thanks TwoMany

 

[member3480]

You are so right Pete.
I test all my harnesses before they leave here and that is the biggest question every time. YAMAHA factory ground is 12mm bolt on back of motor near oil cap and if everyone would tie all there grounds together and end up there MANY MANY Lights/Ignitions and other things would not blow. I just seen way too many bad grounds.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Remember EvenmoreXS's experience using the swingarm as a ground?

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27552

 

[mseriously]

I've learned tons from DaddyG and Pamcopete...here's a good example of making good grounds:

I have a hardtail 78 bored to 700 and cammed. Ran alright. Not good, but not like a sewing machine that my 75 did. Tried screwing with carbs. Setting float bowl heights. Checking needle heights, cleaning them. Checked ignition and spark, timing, adjusted valves. Lights worked lo/hi. Rear brake light worked. Simple wiring system. I just rode it and it got worse. Finally the headlight burnt out one night on the ride home and the bike died along with it. WHAT THE FUCK.

Long walk home pushing the bike. Got me to thinking. I opened the headlight and the 3 prong harley style connection was melted. It was searching for a ground!!! I know this because I took the multimeter out and the "headlight" ground wasn't a ground at all...

At this point I re-did the whole harness. Used a simple diagram I found and used star washers and cleaned and tested grounds at every point TO THE FRAME. To my disbelief, it fired up first kick once done. Revved like a scalded cat and had some poop in its pants. Runs like a dream now. Someone here told me that 90 percent of your carb problems are electrical. Kinda makes sense now when you think about it. You need air, fuel, and spark to make an engine run...these bikes aren't known to have air/fuel problems. Electrical problems? Especially if it's 30/40 years old? You bet. Get the electrical right first. Crawl before you walk.

 

[fredintoon]

Hi mseriously
Someone here told me that 90 percent of your carb problems are electrical.
It's said in jest but yes, it's true.
So is the converse:-
90 percent of your electrical problems are carb related.
One time I spent an effin' week fighting with my ignition and the bike still wouldn't run right.
Half an hour cleaning the carbs fixed it right up.

 

[CDNTX650]

As an electrician i over kill them in dc stuff. I did a number 8 from batt ry to frame on rear motor mount and one above the engine. And from that one a number 14 into the head light bucket.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

A replay of one of my favorite 'grounding' stories:

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showpost.php?p=276081&postcount=18

 

[JayR]

Yep Rich is The Man. He made a great harness and walked me through a bunch of basic questions. I studied countless wiring diagrams, pretty much was able to understand them, but I've never done any bike electrical work ( residential yes which ain't the same).

Anyway, after a few days of back and forth with Rich, had a cold beer on Friday night and made a couple of not obvious ground connections and now have all lights and gauges fire and aft working.

More work to do but getting there - thanks Rich!

 

[member3480]

Did a GOOD JOB JAY and you hung in there checking wires and learning.
NEW BOXES IN READY FOR NEW HARNESSES.....
Going to sell just the box with switches too so you can run your own wires and box has KEY SWITCH-LIGHT SWITCH-HORN SWITCH-NEUTRAL LIGHT All you need for your chop build or CAFE build under seat. Comes with MALE and FEMALE PLUG.
NEXT!!!!!

 

[Joe hurley]

When you do a rewire its so important to go over the grounds. They will drive you crazy...
I been working with JAY a harness I did and its a full blown one with all the bells and whistles ... He is new to wires and it took some emails back and forth but hes getting it and GROUNDS are his demon HAHA
When you buy a headlight that only has two wires one is HIGH BEAM and the other is LOW BEAM ......BUT WERE is the GROUND... The bucket or bolt is the ground so if you don't have METAL trees there is no ground so you have to create one. You can add a wire to bucket and ground it. Same with TAIL LIGHTS with only two wires you hope the frame is a good enough ground but sometimes not.
I did a test 3 years ago on a frame that was always blowing fuses and lights the frame itself was a POOR ground and if you took a OHM meter and placed one end on the rear of the frame and one on the neck METER DIDN'T MOVE.... But if you went halfway to the backbone to the rear the meter moved... WHAT THE HELL! so I had a couple junk frames and took a 17" section out of frame split it in two and the RUST inside was way more than I thought . COULD RUST stop the ground? So I tested the inside and sometimes on the rust I got a connection and other time I didn't. So did I prove something MAYBE...
So try and get your grounds together and a bare spot and JAY you GOT a A for effort and not giving up and LEARNING
PLUS don't be leave the colors on lights. BLACK can be HOT and BLACK white could be ground OR Yellow or BLUE???? So test that tail light or headlight before you put it on bike ....MARK the wires makes it sooooo easy.
HAVE FUN WIRING UP YOUR BIKE

I power washed my 1976 XS and now when I go to start to start it I have power (I push the starter button and a green light appears by the key switch) but no power to the starter motor (no crank, no start). I can't kick start it either.
Any suggestions?

 

[member3480]

Sounds like you may have cooked the key switch. Jump it out and see if all works. Starter button is just a ground and if you can't kick it also look to see if you blew fuses.

 

[Joe hurley]

Thanks for the advice. I'll let you know what happens (or doesn't, as the case may be).

 

[DEMORALIZER]

Why don't people use the engine as the main ground point. It would seriously eliminate trouble shooting the frame as the common ground point.

***those project boxes above are junk and don't seal properly***

a better option to an electronics project box would be a Hammond 1590p1

 

[member3480]

Why don't they seal???? and why do they have to seal for?
Got a picture of what you are talking about?
Never had a problem with any of the enclosers

 

[DEMORALIZER]

They don't seal from water or the elements. The case splits apart in the middle and is held together by two end caps. I used one originally on my build and water intrusion occurred and killed my e-advancer. Drilling them can be a pain too due to the case separation is right in the center. A friend of mine told me about these project boxes I posted above and he uses them for effects pedals in the music industry. They also make a rubber gasket for every case size.

 

[member3480]

Got to get one and check it out. Almost looks like the one from Radio Shack.
Never had water damage any of the ones I used. I shrink wrap all the connections.
Plus I don't ride in the rain TOO OLD done it and now I got smarter just pull over.

 

[DEMORALIZER]

PM me your address and I will send you one. Its not the riding in the rain part lol. Its the ride after the rain, when your tires throw it all over the bike without adequate fenders.

 

[AtoXS]

I followed Daddy's instructions by using the engine bolt for a all my grounds with the exception of my taillight and had zero problems, electrically anyway.

 

[XSLeo]

To decrease grounding problem between engine and frame, I take apart at least the rear engine mount. The triangle shaped one. I then clean the frame of paint where the mount touches the frame. I clean the two triangle pieces the same, where they touch the frame and engine. I bit of grease to prevent corrosion on reassembly' I often do the front and top mounts too, The top mount being 6 pieces, can be a bit much.
I also like to run an extra cable from a starter mount bolt back up to the battery negative.
On my 75 I had a terminal block the has bolt on the edge and a bunch of blade style terminals on it. A wire from the bolt to the same place on the frame the battery negative gets bolted on. Then I can run grounds from most of the things that need a ground back to this block. One wire goes up too the headlight bucket for lighting, One runs back to the rear for rear lighting.
All the stuff near by right to the block.
This eliminates most of the frame ground points. It don't look as neat as using the frame but things get a good ground.
Leo