Hard shift/no shift

Jusblowit

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I am working out the final kinks on my project, already had it out for a test ride and then had to take a step back and address some leaks due to overlooked/improperly installed seals...

At any rate, when I had it out shifting was extremely stiff. When I rebuilt the engine everything seemed to shift fine on the bench, so I assumed the problem had to do with clearance issues with the linkage mechanism to the rearsets.
Did a bit of tweaking of my linkage rod and spacers got it to where shifting action is really smooth with the bike on a service stand rocking the rear wheel back and forth by hand.

However, with the engine running (with the bike on a stand) the gearbox is all but locked out. I can shift up or down out of neutral but then it's locked in 1st or 2nd. Can't shift at all until I cut the engine.

I'm going to give it a try with the original shifter on the shaft, to eliminate the linkage as the culprit, but is there anything else I could be looking for?

One possible clue is the clutch- I've converted to a hydraulic setup. Originally used a 5/8" master and it was waaaay stiff. Swapped out to a 12mm and its very plush, but I may have lost too much travel. When I kick it into gear with the engine running the clutch DOES disengage but I can feel the slightest bit of drag. I know this can make it hard to find neutral, but it shouldn't affect the ability to just shift through the gears, should it? I can try a 14mm master, but its quite a few $$ I don't want to spend until I've eliminated other possibilities.

The real head scratcher for me is the shifting seems to work perfectly with the engine off...Please someone tell me I don't have to pull the motor and crack the cases...
 

RustiePyles

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Sounds like your clutch is dragging. Does it clunk and stiffen up when you put it gear while running? Is your hydro clutch slave cylinder adjustable? Maybe it doesn't have enough throw. Also, most bikes wont shift if the trans shafts are stationary, wheels need to be turning.
 

Jusblowit

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As mentioned in the OP, the clutch *is* dragging ever so slightly. There's no adjustment to the slave cylinder, the only way to adjust throw is by swapping master cylinder bore size. Suppose I could put the 5/8" back on and see if it still drags with the new linkage setup...But it doesn't make sense to me that should lock up the gearbox entirely. Shouldn't I be able to shift through the gears at a standstill with the motor idling? At very least put it in neutral. I understand clutch drag can make it hard to find the neutral detent, but it shouldn't prevent shifting altogether.
 

RustiePyles

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As mentioned in the OP, the clutch *is* dragging ever so slightly. There's no adjustment to the slave cylinder, the only way to adjust throw is by swapping master cylinder bore size. Suppose I could put the 5/8" back on and see if it still drags with the new linkage setup...But it doesn't make sense to me that should lock up the gearbox entirely. Shouldn't I be able to shift through the gears at a standstill with the motor idling? At very least put it in neutral. I understand clutch drag can make it hard to find the neutral detent, but it shouldn't prevent shifting altogether.
You will not be able to shift with the trans static. In order for the gears/dogs to mesh the trans must be in motion. Put the bike up on the center stand/jack and roll the back tire by hand this will allow you to shift through all the gears.
 

Jusblowit

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You will not be able to shift with the trans static. In order for the gears/dogs to mesh the trans must be in motion. Put the bike up on the center stand/jack and roll the back tire by hand this will allow you to shift through all the gears.
Even with the motor running?
You never come to a stop in gear and pop it in neutral? Or in 2nd and kick it down to 1st?
The funny thing is that on a jack, rolling the tire by hand, it shifts fine. With the motor running, it's totally jammed.
 

RustiePyles

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Even with the motor running?
You never come to a stop in gear and pop it in neutral? Or in 2nd and kick it down to 1st?
The funny thing is that on a jack, rolling the tire by hand, it shifts fine. With the motor running, it's totally jammed.
Yeah you wont get into any gear other first/N/second without the trans rotating. Even with the motor running the trans is static unless the bike is moving. And to add to that if your clutch is dragging that means the trans is bound up when its in gear, so that will make it even harder to find any gear including neutral with the motor running.
 

Jusblowit

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Yeah, I can put it in 1st/2nd, but then I can't get out. So sounds like the clutch drag might be to blame. If I swap back to the 5/8" master and that solves the problem, I'll know what to do. Will update once I've found the solution.
-Thanks!
 
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