Head Torquing

[Shipper]

Quick question. Lots of threads about how to re-torque the head bolts/nuts on a 650XSB and most (if not all) recommend bolt/nut removal first to lubricate individually. Whats the best way to clean and lubricate? Motor oil? White grease spray?

Been seeping out now for a week or so and want to get on it.

Thanks

 

[5twins]

You usually find the threads dry, just dirty, so I hit them with a little wire wheel on a Dremel. For lubing the threads I use anti-seize.

 

[Shipper]

You usually find the threads dry, just dirty, so I hit them with a little wire wheel on a Dremel. For lubing the threads I use anti-seize.

Thanks Twins. Any particular brand of anti-seize?

 

[5twins]

I use a copper-based type, C5-A. It's copper colored so it shows up better on the threads. The other type of anti-seize is nickel based and silver in color. It's harder to see on the threads. C5-A used to be made by Fel-Pro but I think Loctite makes it now. No matter really, just know that it's still available but just from a different manufacturer now .....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1748204565...MImNDi55aB8gIVyuDICh1_fQxLEAQYBCABEgLHTvD_BwE

 

[Shipper]

Thanks Twins. Not Loctite but have a comparable copper based high temp alternative. Appreciate the advice as always.

Cheers

 

[fredintoon]

Quick question. Lots of threads about how to re-torque the head bolts/nuts on a 650XSB and most (if not all) recommend bolt/nut removal first to lubricate individually. Whats the best way to clean and lubricate? Motor oil? White grease spray?
Been seeping out now for a week or so and want to get on it.
Thanks

Hi Shipper,
what they all said PLUS trashcan those four sealing washers because they ain't the right sort for the application.
Swap in four Dowty Seals AKA McMaster-Carr metal bonded sealing washer #93781A038,
McM/C sells them in 5-packs at ~$11 a pack.

 

[Shipper]

Hi Shipper,
what they all said PLUS trashcan those four sealing washers because they ain't the right sort for the application.
Swap in four Dowty Seals AKA McMaster-Carr metal bonded sealing washer #93781A038,
McM/C sells them in 5-packs at ~$11 a pack.

Hey Fred,

Saw the advice for swap out in a previous thread but hey, thanks again.

Fact is, got a couple of brass replacement washers from DirectXS (Canadian Mike’s) for the four acorns and full new washer sets off eBay for the other 8.

Good enough?

 

[fredintoon]

Hey Fred,
Saw the advice for swap out in a previous thread but hey, thanks again.
Fact is, got a couple of brass replacement washers from DirectXS (Canadian Mike’s) for the four acorns and full new washer sets off eBay for the other 8.
Good enough?

Hi Shipper,
yup, non-ferrous plain washers will torque up OK and hopefully not leak oil.

 

[5twins]

No need to replace any of the steel washers. I know they get kinda crusty but no one ever sees them up under the gas tank there. But, I usually do replace the ones on the bolts under the spark plugs, usually with stainless.

 

[Shipper]

No need to replace any of the steel washers. I know they get kinda crusty but no one ever sees them up under the gas tank there. But, I usually do replace the ones on the bolts under the spark plugs, usually with stainless.

Got it, although I already bought steel replacements for those too and will use them anyway.

One more question. I see on previous threads a kind of mix of opinion on process. Does removing each bolt out separately and in order of the torque diagram, clean, lube and replace to torque prior to moving to the next bolt in the diagram the proper process? I'm thinking yes on this from what I've read. Doesn't make a lot of sense removing numerous bolts at the same time.

Thanks again - got everything ready for an early start tomorrow morning.

 

[5twins]

Yes, only remove one at a time. Here's a diagram .....

I've revised my thinking on the 8 large acorn nuts (#1- #8). I only go about 28 to 30 on them now. More torque doesn't seem to help and you risk stretching the studs. Also, be aware that only fasteners 1 - 11 act on the head gasket, so they're the only ones you need to check if trying to torque the head back down. Fasteners 12 - 15 only hold the top cover on and have nothing to do with applying torque to the head gasket.

 

[Shipper]

Yes, only remove one at a time. Here's a diagram .....

I've revised my thinking on the 8 large acorn nuts (#1- #8). I only go about 28 to 30 on them now. More torque doesn't seem to help and you risk stretching the studs. Also, be aware that only fasteners 1 - 11 act on the head gasket, so they're the only ones you need to check if trying to torque the head back down. Fasteners 12 - 15 only hold the top cover on and have nothing to do with applying torque to the head gasket.

Great info. Thanks again.

 

[Shipper]

Yes, only remove one at a time. Here's a diagram .....

I've revised my thinking on the 8 large acorn nuts (#1- #8). I only go about 28 to 30 on them now. More torque doesn't seem to help and you risk stretching the studs. Also, be aware that only fasteners 1 - 11 act on the head gasket, so they're the only ones you need to check if trying to torque the head back down. Fasteners 12 - 15 only hold the top cover on and have nothing to do with applying torque to the head gasket.

Hey Twins,

This is likely second hand to you but its the first head I've had to torque and I was quite surprised to find the stud under number # acorn nut (first one removed by diagram) appears loose. Not what I was expecting at all. Do you just refasten the nut to torque after cleaning and lube or is that stud supposed to come out?

Please advise. Obviously need this right.

Thanks

 

[BowlingSS]

My manual shows 27 on the 10mm nuts.

 

[Shipper]

Thanks Bowling, mine says 30 but I’m still waiting on an answer regarding some play in the stud for number 1 nut.

Probably go with 30 on the 10mm’s.

 

[5twins]

No, the studs shouldn't be loose but I suppose it's possible for them to come loose. They just thread into the upper case. So, tighten the stud back in best you can (double nut on it maybe?), then torque the acorn nut onto it.

 

[gggGary]

Thanks Bowling, mine says 30 but I’m still waiting on an answer regarding some play in the stud for number 1 nut.

Probably go with 30 on the 10mm’s.

That's pretty unusual The bottom of the studs has a long thread into the upper case half and is held in with a locktite type of compound, it's normally a bear to remove studs, heat typically required.

 

[Shipper]

Obviously not what I was hoping to hear guys. It’s not “loose” per day but you can move it side to side with some finger pressure. Guess I’ll try to double nut it and see what get.

I’ll let you know.

 

[5twins]

Well, they do flex side to side pretty easily, that's kinda normal. It is a very long stud.

 

[Shipper]

Looks like I need to go search the local Home Depot for nuts thin enough to double nut that stud. Fact is, the stud won’t turn with what pressure I can get on it but it still will move slightly side to side with some pressure. Not really loose but not rock solid tight. May end up just totqueing the acorn down and moving on. The head gasket wasn’t leaking at the back where number one stud lives.