Heavy Metal. Rust Removal and plating

DogBunny

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From what I've read, that's most likely from uneven current distribution due to it's irregular shape. Maybe try changing the relationship of the current source (anode) and the part?
I don't think that explains the little rust spots that I got on other, more regularly shaped pieces. I was pretty assiduous about rotating my pieces during the plating. I tried various prep and cleaning scenarios, but I always got little spots that just didn't plate. I always felt like it was a prep problem, but I don't know what else I could have tried.
 

gggGary

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From a carb group on FB Someone knows how to plate, not sure if it's copy cad or what..
from a FB group.jpg
 

Jim

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Unless your birthday is tomorrow try it.
Or I can continue down this path... no?
Which by the way, included trying Evaporust as a substitute for the phosphoric acid (2nd) bath. I've read that it has similar properties and I've almost exhausted my stock of the p. acid.
 

GLJ

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Or I can continue down this path... no?
Which by the way, included trying Evaporust as a substitute for the phosphoric acid (2nd) bath. I've read that it has similar properties and I've almost exhausted my stock of the p. acid.
I plan many on more birthdays in my future. If I don't get all my parts derusted before I go will I care? Or will I even care if I don't get to all my projects. I can find plenty of things to do waiting for rust to go away. I've just been blown away many times at how well chrome parts have come out using EvapoRust.
Quickest way I have found is my media blaster if not worried about finish. I use EvapoRust mainly on chrome. Have been playing with Milkstone remover with limited results.
 

650Skull

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Found it. :thumbsup:.......Did this about 3 years ago. Lost it, then found it jammed between some boxes i was moving............

Soaked in straight vinegar solution. It peeled most of the factory paint off. I used Baking soda, dissolved in a water solution, to wash the cover after the vinegar bath, then i sanded using Wet and Dry and WD40 as a lubricant then gave it a spray of lanolin oil, and a soft wipe to spread the oil, and placed in a plastic bag.

Subsequently lost it when i was moving shit around.....:poo:.

The plastic bag had deteriorated and crumbled when i picked up the cover. Just a wipe over with my hand and some plastic still stuck to it.As you can see the cover did slightly rust on one corner, where that corner was exposed, when it got lost. This is light surface rust that hasn't pitted at all, although it is starting to get heavier on the edge buy the bracket hole.

Been sitting out in the open for the last couple of weeks and on the outside there is a faint hint of rust.

I consider this a success, using vinegar as a rust, or paint, remover and the process i used to neutralize and protect. ......This is still bare steel.

IMG_3145 sh li resize.jpg
IMG_3162 sh li resize.jpg
IMG_3145 sh li crop resize.jpg
 

Paul Sutton

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Hydrochloric acid is fantastic at cutting through rust, but those naughty little chlorides ions can cause problems later on if not cleaned off properly. My suggestion is to try HCl followed by a good soak in water and then give it an hour or two of electrolysis in washing soda to remove any flash rusting.

I Nickel plated Allen screws a while back. Unfortunately the plating was poor inside the Hexagonal due to geometry and the tendency for bubbles to form and stay trapped. I did find a solution though, use stainless steel Allen screws.

Back on Page 3 Entry 43 I included a link to the Nickel Institute Handbook. On Page 13 of this pdf they state that most nickel plating solutions for decorative purposes are based on the 1916 Watt formulation. The recipe is given and you will notice it does not use vinegar but boric acid (Strangely it contains chloride ions from the nickel chloride). If you are really serious about nickel plating then try the guidance given in the handbook. The vinegar method on YouTube is really just a bit of DIY fun.
 

Paul Sutton

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Most acids will etch the surface of iron, but at different rates. Hydrochloric acid, acetic acid, citric acid etc. will react with the iron. However, the resulting iron salts are quite soluble so dissolve quickly to leave bare metal which further reacts. With phosphoric acid the resulting salt is very insoluble so stays on the surface and protects against further reaction of the iron.
 

DogBunny

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The vinegar method on YouTube is really just a bit of DIY fun.
Based on my results, I think this is the key reality.
I looked at the Nickel Institute Handbook (again). It is not a "how to" or recipe book, and is not really geared toward DIYers.
Caswell offers two different nickel plating technologies in kit form that are aimed at DIYers. One is electro- and the other is electroless. They aren't crazy expensive, but they aren't cheap like the YouTube videos either. If I was interested in doing museum, or near-museum, or even just very, very nice restorations, I would invest in a Caswell kit. However, while I am interested in making nice bikes, they don't have to be that nice.
So, I guess I'll plod along with my YouTube DIY fun method, and accept that I'm not going to get perfect results.
 

Paul Sutton

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I still have a DIY vinegar setup. I think I know its limitations so only use it for non-decorative bits and pieces. It has been good for certain things. I plan someday, before I'm 66, to build a small unit with heating and stirring. I will use the Watt formulation since all is readily available on Ebay.
 

Grimly

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looked up phosphoric acid as rust remover, and I think you're on to something.
I've been using Phosphoric acid in 25- 35% solution for years on rusty chassis and frame members, as well as on raw steel stock for outdoor use.
I've found the first way I did it worked well enough, but then found another way, which might not work for everybody in every situation.

1st way; apply the solution, leave it overnight, hose it all off the next day, let it dry, then undercoat. Paint as normal after that.
That way lasts quite well. Indeed, a trailer chassis I did that way is still rust-free after nearly a decade of sitting out in the rain.

2nd way: Apply the phosphoric acid and let dry. Paint straight over with a high-build zinc paint. Several brackes made from weathered steel have survived several years with no rust. Some other brackets I'd made using the other method were let down by thin, cheap paint.


Most acids will etch the surface of iron, but at different rates. Hydrochloric acid, acetic acid, citric acid etc. will react with the iron. However, the resulting iron salts are quite soluble so dissolve quickly to leave bare metal which further reacts. With phosphoric acid the resulting salt is very insoluble so stays on the surface and protects against further reaction of the iron.
It seems to work for me.
 

thuban

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Twas my birthday the middle of the month so I thought I'd get me something. I too have carb clamps, adapter supports and all kinds of stuff all over the bike that needs freshening up. Gotta start someplace. I picked up a 30V 10A variable power supply, ( Lots of uses) a roll of Zinc enough to plate an Edsel and a 5 pound bag of Zinc Sulfate Monohydrate to make a butt kicking solution. I'm still pulling stuff together with no clear plan but I knew what a water break surface was before I knew what women in foreign ports were. Some of that tin bender stuff, you know. May come in handy building my muzzle loaders too.:thumbsup:
plating.jpg

Thu
 

Jim

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Twas my birthday the middle of the month so I thought I'd get me something. I too have carb clamps, adapter supports and all kinds of stuff all over the bike that needs freshening up. Gotta start someplace. I picked up a 30V 10A variable power supply, ( Lots of uses) a roll of Zinc enough to plate an Edsel and a 5 pound bag of Zinc Sulfate Monohydrate to make a butt kicking solution. I'm still pulling stuff together with no clear plan but I knew what a water break surface was before I knew what women in foreign ports were. Some of that tin bender stuff, you know. May come in handy building my muzzle loaders too.:thumbsup:
View attachment 197213

Thu
Think I have power supply envy.... :rolleyes:
Thu, is that adjustable volts, amps or both?
 

thuban

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Both, Jim. It's a Eventek Mod: KPS 3010D. Amazon $70 bucks. Can get a 30V 5 amp for $53 bucks but I got the larger one.
I saw a U-tuber using this to plate and thought It might be a good idea.
 

Paul Sutton

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Just an update: I am still tin plating bits and pieces, last week a couple of bolts. Since I started cleaning steel items prior to plating by soaking in strong caustic solution for 5 minutes followed by a rinse in battery acid I have not had delamination occur and the plating is shiny. If rinsing with battery acid the item should be put in the plating solution immediately or a dark coating appears on the steel. This dark coating is easily removed by washing with battery acid for a couple of minutes.
 

Paul Sutton

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Good Power Supply: You need the variable voltage and variable current so you can make adjustments depending on surface area to be plated and electrolyte strength.

From a carb group on FB Someone knows how to plate, not sure if it's copy cad or what..

That Cadmium type effect on carburetors is very easy to obtain, but first you need to be able to Zinc plate. This is then followed by dipping in an acidified chromate solution:


Excellent video regarding the process. So when Thuban masters Zinc plating he will be able to add this to his skills list also.
 

Signal

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I recently used electrolysis to de rust and remove paint from a battery box. Very pleased with the outcome.
 
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