Thanks for the tip. I may well try that if a local solution does not work out.
-
Enjoy XS650.com? Consider making a donation to help support the site.
XS650.com receives a small share of sales from some links on this page, but direct donations have a much greater impact on keeping this site going.
HONDA GL1000 1975/6 Called Merlin.
- Thread starter Adamc
- Start date
these? not sure.
He did a lot of goldie carbs said 75-76 are the worst, hard to do, better to find set of parts carbs cuz you'll prolly need em. Also; find some later 77-78 1100 carbs they are plug n play and much improved over the early ones.
Just heresy but this guys pretty good with (G)old wings.
Another goldie locks heard from;
Randall Washington
osorpSednti447463t9a0i40307i31lahhl56a11g82fui9i3c2fl921hmai ·These Keihin carbs are among the most satisfying carbs ever to work on. The '75 version carbs as shown here are the top performers of the 5-year production year.
Fun fact: these carbs were adapted from automobile carbs originally developed for the 1969 Honda R600.
Last edited:
Ps the plugs are tapered, like maybe one degree.
Fabricating the plug ?
Maybe cutting a piece of a drill bit shaft with angle grinder .. And use some chemical as loctite if the fit is not good enough
6.5 mm is definitely available and in steps 0.1 mm is also something one can buy
Maybe cutting a piece of a drill bit shaft with angle grinder .. And use some chemical as loctite if the fit is not good enough
6.5 mm is definitely available and in steps 0.1 mm is also something one can buy
Hi Gary,
Thanks for getting this info which is useful. Regards to your contacts too for contributing.
Cheers
Ads.
Last edited:
CARB REBUILD - WOES AND WINS
I took note of several forum members comments above for which I thank you all.
In the end I ordered 4 x KEYSTER KH-0390 Carb rebuild kits from David Silver Spares - UK.
These kits are of high quality and Made in Japan; not the cheap eBay chinesium 'fit and regret' shit I have tried in the past.
They called me two days later to say they only have 3 in stock and no idea when any back orders would arrive. I accepted the three which arrived the next day. There are no KH-0390 kits anywhere in Europe or the UK! They are availible in the USA, but stupid expensive to buy and ship.
Unfortunately the kit does not include the Needle Jet Holder (P/No: 16165-371-770), the tube that is bent in one carb body.
The needle drags when inserted. I tried to obtain the tube, or another carb body / set of carbs.
Cheapest set of 'complete' carbs I found were from Italy £270.00 shipped. 1 incomplete carb body UK was £60.00 + shipping!
Niether would guarantee how 'complete' the items were.
Sod that for a game of soldiers, so shit or bust, I took the bent tube to the workshop.
The brass tube wall is very thin and easily deformed; I pushed a very close fitting precision steel drill bit as far into the tube as possible to act as a former.
With some gentle manipulation in the small bench vice jaws; and delicate tapping applied with a very small hammer I got it back into shape. The drill pushed right through easily with the faintest of drag; checked with a carb needle and all seems good.
The other missing part was the 'plug' covering a small air chamber in the carb body. The remaining three were a real PITA to get out.
These are not even listed in the Official Honda Parts Catalogue. I took the advice of @Jan_P and cut the end off one of my late farthers drill bits to match exactly the dimension of the original plug (pic above). This is a steel plug where as the others are aluminium. Only worry is heat expansion of the differing metal, but I will take a chance.
I then checked the contents of the KEYSTER kit with what came out of one my carb body.
New on left / old on right:
All seems to match, with the exception of the main jet; new is stamped 62 old looks like 60 but is very faint (could be 62 all are very difficult to read)
The result is I can rebuild three units to 'as new' condition, but one body will be a best of the three older carb bodies contents.
Finally I have purchased a new Ultrasonic Cleaning Bath. At £140.00 it seemed good value for a 15Ltr unit.
Good write ups from other purchasers too.
Ads.
I took note of several forum members comments above for which I thank you all.
In the end I ordered 4 x KEYSTER KH-0390 Carb rebuild kits from David Silver Spares - UK.
These kits are of high quality and Made in Japan; not the cheap eBay chinesium 'fit and regret' shit I have tried in the past.
They called me two days later to say they only have 3 in stock and no idea when any back orders would arrive. I accepted the three which arrived the next day. There are no KH-0390 kits anywhere in Europe or the UK! They are availible in the USA, but stupid expensive to buy and ship.
Unfortunately the kit does not include the Needle Jet Holder (P/No: 16165-371-770), the tube that is bent in one carb body.
The needle drags when inserted. I tried to obtain the tube, or another carb body / set of carbs.
Cheapest set of 'complete' carbs I found were from Italy £270.00 shipped. 1 incomplete carb body UK was £60.00 + shipping!
Niether would guarantee how 'complete' the items were.
Sod that for a game of soldiers, so shit or bust, I took the bent tube to the workshop.
The brass tube wall is very thin and easily deformed; I pushed a very close fitting precision steel drill bit as far into the tube as possible to act as a former.
With some gentle manipulation in the small bench vice jaws; and delicate tapping applied with a very small hammer I got it back into shape. The drill pushed right through easily with the faintest of drag; checked with a carb needle and all seems good.
The other missing part was the 'plug' covering a small air chamber in the carb body. The remaining three were a real PITA to get out.
These are not even listed in the Official Honda Parts Catalogue. I took the advice of @Jan_P and cut the end off one of my late farthers drill bits to match exactly the dimension of the original plug (pic above). This is a steel plug where as the others are aluminium. Only worry is heat expansion of the differing metal, but I will take a chance.
I then checked the contents of the KEYSTER kit with what came out of one my carb body.
New on left / old on right:
All seems to match, with the exception of the main jet; new is stamped 62 old looks like 60 but is very faint (could be 62 all are very difficult to read)
The result is I can rebuild three units to 'as new' condition, but one body will be a best of the three older carb bodies contents.
Finally I have purchased a new Ultrasonic Cleaning Bath. At £140.00 it seemed good value for a 15Ltr unit.
Good write ups from other purchasers too.
Ads.
Well done for fixing the needle jet holder, and making up the metal plugs. I think this forum gives people like us a lot more confidence to give things a go.
@Adamc , I recommend NRP Carbs in Manchester for Keyster carburettor kits. Always helpful and good prices. From their website -
NRP is THE UK distributer for KEYSTER carb kits, the most comprehensive carb rebuild kits available, and second to none for quality.
https://nrp-carbs.co.uk/
NRP is THE UK distributer for KEYSTER carb kits, the most comprehensive carb rebuild kits available, and second to none for quality.
https://nrp-carbs.co.uk/
Thank
Thanks for the info; which will be very handy.
You're welcome. They have an absolutely dire website but it's a little treasure trove of stuff. One interesting thing is they make carburettor diaphragms from viton which is much more suitable for modern fuel than the original materials used. I'll have them fit new viton diaphragms to the 650 carburettors one day. Because of the dire website I email them, they answer quite quickly as a rule.
KEIHIN CARBS = The Rubic Cube of Carbs!
I recall the first rebuild of the BS34 Carbs on Taffy as being a bit scary for the novice that I was; but after doing them multiple times it became second nature to remove, rebuild, and re-install them blindfolded!
The KEIHIN carbs on Merlin are like bloody Rubic Cubes in comparison x 4!
First job was to remove all the rubber 'air' lines, none of which had securing clips.
Then the throttle linkage assembly which sychronises the two banks of carburetters.
Manual states 'First remove the nut to disconect the linkage' (Circled Red)
What nut
But of course there is NO NUT! Who would have thought that.
So I just go my own way and wing it; removing various split pins and nuts. Taking piccies to act as a reference for reassembly.
Suffice to say I did succeed in getting both the throttle linkage and choke linkage off the bodies.
Then you have to separate the plenum halves.
Getting the buggers apart was a fight to begin with
. Copious amounts of penetrating fluid, some heat and the use of an impact driver and JIS bits saved the day. All the screws were as tight as a Scotsmans Sporan; and took real effort to remove; some were bent along the threaded length, but luckily the carb body threads remained intact.
The five screws above allowed me to separate the two halves of the plenum, leaving each half with a pair of carbs attached.
Inside the plenum you can access the carb retaining bolts, which also secure the mesh 'blow back' screens.
Removal of the bolts and screen allow one pair of carbs to come away from the plenum; only for a load of small linkage pieces and springs to fly off when the carb bodies were separated!!!
Didn't mention that in the bloody manual.
The other pair of carbs were separated taking far more caution so as not to lose any small pieces.
Each carb was then disassembled to component pieces. Bodies were scrubbed with degeaser and carb cleaner using various tooth brushes and rags. All 'brass' was removed and set aside. Bodies were then 'cooked' in the ultra-sonic bath until poached to perfection.
I did purchase a set of Jet Cleaning Wires from David Silver to aid the restoration as some original brass had to be reused.
Im sure I will use these again sometime.
All new brass and seals were installed together with new 'O' rings as required.
Reassembly took a while as a few days had passed and I had forgoten how they came apart. Applied logic won the day in the end, and all is back together now. New rubber hoses and securing clips have been used; and all of the cheesey headed screws replaced with stainless steel allen head bolts & washers (Should aid any future work on the carbs).
Next job is to get this lot back on the bike complete with new Ethanol friendly fuel lines.
More to come.
Ads.
I recall the first rebuild of the BS34 Carbs on Taffy as being a bit scary for the novice that I was; but after doing them multiple times it became second nature to remove, rebuild, and re-install them blindfolded!
The KEIHIN carbs on Merlin are like bloody Rubic Cubes in comparison x 4!
First job was to remove all the rubber 'air' lines, none of which had securing clips.
Then the throttle linkage assembly which sychronises the two banks of carburetters.
Manual states 'First remove the nut to disconect the linkage' (Circled Red)
What nut
But of course there is NO NUT! Who would have thought that.So I just go my own way and wing it; removing various split pins and nuts. Taking piccies to act as a reference for reassembly.
Suffice to say I did succeed in getting both the throttle linkage and choke linkage off the bodies.
Then you have to separate the plenum halves.
Getting the buggers apart was a fight to begin with
. Copious amounts of penetrating fluid, some heat and the use of an impact driver and JIS bits saved the day. All the screws were as tight as a Scotsmans Sporan; and took real effort to remove; some were bent along the threaded length, but luckily the carb body threads remained intact.The five screws above allowed me to separate the two halves of the plenum, leaving each half with a pair of carbs attached.
Inside the plenum you can access the carb retaining bolts, which also secure the mesh 'blow back' screens.
Removal of the bolts and screen allow one pair of carbs to come away from the plenum; only for a load of small linkage pieces and springs to fly off when the carb bodies were separated!!!
Didn't mention that in the bloody manual.The other pair of carbs were separated taking far more caution so as not to lose any small pieces.
Each carb was then disassembled to component pieces. Bodies were scrubbed with degeaser and carb cleaner using various tooth brushes and rags. All 'brass' was removed and set aside. Bodies were then 'cooked' in the ultra-sonic bath until poached to perfection.
I did purchase a set of Jet Cleaning Wires from David Silver to aid the restoration as some original brass had to be reused.
Im sure I will use these again sometime.
All new brass and seals were installed together with new 'O' rings as required.
Reassembly took a while as a few days had passed and I had forgoten how they came apart. Applied logic won the day in the end, and all is back together now. New rubber hoses and securing clips have been used; and all of the cheesey headed screws replaced with stainless steel allen head bolts & washers (Should aid any future work on the carbs).
Next job is to get this lot back on the bike complete with new Ethanol friendly fuel lines.
More to come.
Ads.
Last edited:
Wow Adam, I’m impressed! Those carbs really are complicated, you’re going to be a real carburetor pro now!
It’s funny, I remember being so afraid that I’d forget how to put the BS38’s back together with all the linkages correct and so on, I must’ve taken 100 photographs from every angle and stage of disassembly. I would’ve probably taken a ridiculous amount of photos for your Goldwing carbs!
Good on ya for figuring them out! I’ve just gotta share this, every time I see these being sold as jet cleaners I chuckle. I’m quite sure they work very well for that purpose, but what they were designed for was for cleaning torch tips. When I was a welder ( back before plasma cutters ) I used a cutting torch a dozen times a day and I always carried that tool in my pocket. Metal splatter sticks to the end of torches and then it no longer cuts cleanly. The little flat file resurfaces the end of the torch tip then the little cleaning rods true up the holes.
What an obscure reference, I had to look it up. Learn something new every day!
Usual sellers' bullshit. Often, they really believe it too, forgetting that it might have been true five, ten years ago, when it was running great.
Kind words Bob.Wow Adam, I’m impressed! Those carbs really are complicated, you’re going to be a real carburetor pro now!
It’s funny, I remember being so afraid that I’d forget how to put the BS38’s back together with all the linkages correct and so on, I must’ve taken 100 photographs from every angle and stage of disassembly. I would’ve probably taken a ridiculous amount of photos for your Goldwing carbs!
I’ve just gotta share this, every time I see these being sold as jet cleaners I chuckle. I’m quite sure they work very well for that purpose, but what they were designed for was for cleaning torch tips. When I was a welder ( back before plasma cutters ) I used a cutting torch a dozen times a day and I always carried that tool in my pocket. Metal splatter sticks to the end of torches and then it no longer cuts cleanly. The little flat file resurfaces the end of the torch tip then the little cleaning rods true up the holes.
View attachment 332944
1. The proof is in the fitting of the assembly firing up and hearing it run properly
2. To be honest the carb cleaning 'tool' was superfluous to my needs as it arrived after I had cleaned everything with soft copper strands and dental tools!
3. Raymond could tell us more about the Sporran in a new thread?
Way to go Raymond! 
Ads.
Last edited:
So true @Grimly,
If I had tried to ride it home I would have had my balls incinerated before leaving the outskirts of Birmingham!
Anyone for griddled sweetbreads?
Ads, you appear to be under the misapprehension that I am Scottish?
Not at all Raymond, but as far as I know you are the only forum member in that part of the Great British Union? Therefore your ‘Sporran’ knowledge must exceed that of any other forum member due to geographic proximity to the article.
No offence intended.
Alternatively anyone interested may indeed look
it up on Google etc…..“Oh Flower of Scotland, when will we see…….etc”
Long live the King
THE VILLAGE IDIOT TRIES AGAIN..... Uh oH!
After work last evening traffic was light and I arrived home half an hour early; so I decided to head to the lock-up and try to install the carbs back into Merlin. Reading the factory manual I recall they came out fairly easily following removal of the Air Cut Off Valve. So installation is just the reverse of removal right; 30 minutes tops!
Over an hour later the carb assembly was still half hanging out of the frame, with the central linkage spring hitting the petrol tank seam at the rear, and a brass collet hittng the frame stay at the front; no way was this going back in, what have I done wrong? Much cussing and disbelief ensued. So time to step away and take ten.
I then re-read the manual which says 'simply remove from the left side of the bike'. Light bulb moment!
Well roger me with a splintered cricket bat; why didnt I read that at the start? I was convinced in my own mind the bloody thing came out the right side.
I insert the unit from the left and 'hey presto' it goes in like it was designed to do that!!
Out of curiosity I decided to cut open the old inline fuel filter because the fine gause Carb valve seat filters were clogged.
This is what I found:
All these deposits were somewhat worrying to find; but must be very old crud from years ago.
The case of the filter has yellowed with age. I checked the petrol tank internals when I first got the bike using a mates bore-scope, and it looks like new.
The first UK owner replaced the tank on arrival from the USA. But why reuse an old filter, it baffles me.
I still need to connect the new fuel line up with new filter. Maybe on the weekend.
Ads.
After work last evening traffic was light and I arrived home half an hour early; so I decided to head to the lock-up and try to install the carbs back into Merlin. Reading the factory manual I recall they came out fairly easily following removal of the Air Cut Off Valve. So installation is just the reverse of removal right; 30 minutes tops!
Over an hour later the carb assembly was still half hanging out of the frame, with the central linkage spring hitting the petrol tank seam at the rear, and a brass collet hittng the frame stay at the front; no way was this going back in, what have I done wrong? Much cussing and disbelief ensued. So time to step away and take ten.
I then re-read the manual which says 'simply remove from the left side of the bike'. Light bulb moment!
Well roger me with a splintered cricket bat; why didnt I read that at the start? I was convinced in my own mind the bloody thing came out the right side.
I insert the unit from the left and 'hey presto' it goes in like it was designed to do that!!
Out of curiosity I decided to cut open the old inline fuel filter because the fine gause Carb valve seat filters were clogged.
This is what I found:
All these deposits were somewhat worrying to find; but must be very old crud from years ago.
The case of the filter has yellowed with age. I checked the petrol tank internals when I first got the bike using a mates bore-scope, and it looks like new.
The first UK owner replaced the tank on arrival from the USA. But why reuse an old filter, it baffles me.
I still need to connect the new fuel line up with new filter. Maybe on the weekend.
Ads.
It’s even worse when you are your own PO! Just sayin’.@Adamc The answer is, as I'm discovering, there's really no limit to what a previous owner can do to the simplest of things
