Hydraulic Clutch Intrest?

What would you be willing to pay for a purpose built xs650 hydraulic slave cylinder?

  • Under $100

    Votes: 2 6.5%
  • $100 - $125

    Votes: 9 29.0%
  • $125 - $150

    Votes: 7 22.6%
  • $150 - $175

    Votes: 3 9.7%
  • $175 - $200

    Votes: 10 32.3%

  • Total voters
    31
I don't quite understand peoples concerns on bleeding. it has a bleed nipple on the outside of the case under the stock clutch adjustment cover. I think it should be fairly straightforward.
hydro line came preassembled and exits the slave straight down. it does not fit through the cable hole without modification. I think it will just follow the alternate wires right out of the cover taking care to route around the chain. I don't think it will be a problem

Yup - I agree and would say that it looks like a really nice set-up indeed.

As to the concerns expressed about filling and bleeding the hydraulic system - not a problem. I'm sure that most people know how to do this, but just in case somebody may be apprehensive about it, here is a run-down on filling, bleeding and starting up a hydraulic brake or clutch system:
  • take the top off the master cylinder up on the handlebar and open the bleed nipple on the slave cylinder (or brake caliper) with a ring wrench, and leave the wrench on the nipple as you'll need it there a bit later;
  • put a piece of clean, clear plastic tubing on the nipple and stick the other end in a jar that has enough NEW, CLEAN brake fluid in it to completely cover the end of the tubing;
  • fill the master cylinder reservoir with NEW, CLEAN brake fluid - and KEEP IT FILLED throughout this operation (if you don't keep it filled, you will be doing it all over again);
  • pump the clutch lever to push brake fluid down the line, into the slave cylinder and out the bleeder nipple (NOTE: you will not feel much resistance to pumping the lever - because all you are doing is pumping fluid down the hose at this point);
  • at first, you'll see air bubbles coming out of the bleeder nipple and down the plastic tube into the jar - and then after some more pumps, you will see brake fluid coming out;
  • KEEP the master cylinder reservoir full (it is handy to have a loyal assistant for this purpose - but make sure they do not spill brake fluid anywhere);
  • once you see only clear fluid and no bubbles in the clear tubing, close the bleeder nipple firmly (but don't bust it off :doh:);
  • pump the lever a couple more times to fill the slave cylinder (it probably was retracted when you started - but now you are making it move and so the lever will feel firmer than before) - and keep that reservoir filled;
  • once the clutch is working - put the top back on the master cylinder and you are done like dinner. The bleeding is done - you can go ride now.
As for bleeding later after the system is assembled and has been used, this is only necessary if you have had to open the hydraulic line up to replace or repair something - or if you have a leak somewhere. To bleed it then, just put a ring wrench on that nipple and then stick your piece of plastic tubing on it with the other end of the tubing into a bottle of NEW CLEAN brake fluid and bleed-away as described above, keeping the master cylinder reservoir filled at all times, until you get clear fluid coming out. Tighten up the nipple, slip the tubing off, and you're done.

The only addition I would make to the installation would be to put a little rubber cap on the end of the nipple after you bleed it - to keep out dirt, road grime and ham sandwich debris that may be passing by. MikesXS sells a similar rubber nipple cap for the brake bleeder nipple which would fit perfect right on there.

If all goes well, you won't have to touch the system again for many years, although you really ought to change the fluid every couple of years or so because brake fluid is hygroscopic which means that it absorbs moisture from the atmosphere and that can cause corrosion of caliper, slave and master cylinders and pistons.

Here are a couple of important cautions:
  1. NEVER spill brake fluid on anything you care about. It will ruin paint instantly and it gives some people a nasty rash. I cannot imagine what it would do to your eyes.... Anyhow, its best to drape your tank with a garbage bag - or remove it altogether.
  2. ALWAYS use fluid from a new unopened bottle of fluid. As I said, this stuff is hygroscopic and picks up water from just sitting around open (even if you do the lid up tightly. It is cheap and so using old fluid is simply not a good practice.
  3. CLEAN the top of the master cylinder reservoir carefully before you open it up - the clearances in hydraulic systems are very small and any dirt or crap will wreck seals quickly.
What sort of master cylinder are you using?

Pete
 
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'75 cases - fit right in - no grinding for me.

It is hard to tell from their pdf instructions but the grinding that they are suggesting is on the left edge if that oil channel not on the back side.

in other words the slave should fit on the pushrod with no modification - the grinding is only if it keeps you from being able to full seat the alternator side cover.- if it closes then no grinding.
 
bleeding: got it now. I have done hydro brakes on mt bikes too many times to think about. I will do the original fill w/ the assembly off the bike so that I can limit bubbles in the system and then do final bleed after assembly.

as to the construction. I will turn the screws when I am in the shop this weekend and post some pics of the two halves if it seems to come apart without too much effort.

my intention in posting this here was to help this effort so if I can further the project that is good by me.

There were three choices with Heiden's hydraulic clutch set up concerning hydraulic clutch line length. Having the stock 1980 XS650 Special with stock handle bars I decided to go with the minimum clutch line length. Big mistake! The routing to the handle bars was not optimal and once I had the Big Fin kit installed the hydraulic clutch line rests against the Big Fin cylinder block. Seems to be working so far, but I am wondering how this is going to effect clutch operation in the summer.
 
Yup - I agree and say that that is a really nice set-up indeed.

As for bleeding, just put a ring wrench on that nipple and then stick a piece of plastic tubing on it and put the other end of the tubing into a bottle of CLEAN brake fluid and bleed-away till you get clear fluid coming out. Tighten up the nipple, slip the tubing off, and you're done. The only addition I would make would be to put a little rubber cap on the end of the nipple after you bleed it - to keep out dirt, road grime and ham sandwiches that may be passing by. MikesXS sells a similar rubber nipple cap for the brake bleeder nipple which would fit perfect right there.

If all goes well, you won't have to touch it again for many years (although your really ought to change the fluid every couple of years or so).

What sort of master cylinder are you using?

Pete
It comes with a generic black master looks like a match to the brake that HHB and others all list - since it came with it I will start there and see how I like it.
 
Good info JameSon. My intent is to order one of those. They seem a little expensive until you think about how far $270.00 will go in s machine shop. I'm miles away from needing it but will probably order soon in case they quit supplying them.
 
Hi guys.
Yes, I still intend to make these and sell them to those who would like them and I intend to on an ongoing basis. I'm going to line up a short run of these this week. I'll make 10 and if they sell I'll do a bigger run. I have been working on the price of machine work as mentioned by others, it's not cheap. Price will be $200. If you're interested please email me at dtwigden62@gmail.com.
 
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Ok Guys time to put your money where your mouth is lol.

I've created a "Gofund Me" account to get the first run of 10 units off the ground. The Price will be $200 plus shipping. The Slave Cylinder will be produced and shipped as soon as the first run is paid for. Shipping in the US will be a flat rate of $7. Outside of the US please let me know your address so I can get back to you (keep in mind this thing is only 1inch x 2inch) so shipping should be cheap.

The Slave cylinder will come complete with an o-ring, mounting hardware, a ball bearing to seat the clutch push rod, a bronze bushing to hold the ball bearing in the piston and a banjo bleed screw.

The link to the go fund me is here https://www.gofundme.com/xs650-slave-cylinder

Seeing as I'm now selling something the link to my "Shops" thread is here http://www.xs650.com/threads/xs650-custom-shop-nor-cal.48860/#post-499472

You can email me directly at dtwigden62@gmail.com for any questions or you can post to my shop thread or DM me or hit me up on IG @dan.motornation.tv

I can't thank you all enough for the support. XS650. com is a really cool forum.

Cheers

Dan

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Hi guys.
Yes, I still intend to make these and sell them to those who would like them and I intend to on an ongoing basis. I'm going to line up a short run of these this week. I'll make 10 and if they sell I'll do a bigger run. I have been working on the price of machine work as mentioned by others, it's not cheap. Price will be $200. If you're interested please email me at dtwigden62@gmail.com.

Metal:
The info on the slave cylinder is going to be what size diameter? I reread the posts and it is not clear. What length is the clutch line for low, medium and high handle bars? My interest is in a very easy to pull hydraulic clutch. Is this design addressing that? What is the routing of the hydraulic clutch line? Will it use the same path out of the side cover as the stock clutch cable? Can you bleed the slave with the side cover on? What size of master cylinder is recommended? Can we use the stock clutch push rod? Will we be able to purchase a kit from you that includes all the components needed for the install?
 
What I'm selling is just the slave cylinder. The MC required will be the 9.5mm Magura. You can buy them on ebay. You can buy your own line to suit your bike. I really can't say how soft the pull will be being I don't have a working prototype yet and I don't know what people have as a clutch set up (springs and so forth).
Yes, its going to work with a stock length pushrod. You bleed it with the case off the bike. You can route the line through the side cover if your will to drill a larger hole and install a rubber grommet to protect the line or you can bolt a p-clip to hold the line using the original hole and route the line out the case opening. I hope this clears things up

Thanks

Dan
 
The MC required will be the 9.5mm Magura. You can buy them on ebay.

Be careful. I believe that most of the "Magura" master cylinders you see from online wholesalers are counterfeit. The part numbers they list are not in the Magura catalog. The one I got has a plastic lid and the font looks different than the pics I've seen of genuine parts. Mine had a bunch of grit inside. I had to completely disassemble it and thoroughly wash it with soap and water. That is not to say the counterfeit parts won't work, just be aware of what you are getting and check it [inside and out] before you use it. Mine has worked well [so far], YMMV.
 
I'd be inclined to find a factory MC with about the correct diameter, AND a mirror mount. Makes replacement parts a piece of cake. If you are also doing something custom with the brakes, you should be able to find a matching pair. V Strom, Honda Nighthawk, Goldwing, etc.
Recommend to look at the ebay items closely. I've spent more on the rebuild kit than the MC occasionally.:shootme:
 
I have closed th go fund me as I have had no support on doing a short run. I'm still going to make one for my own use and testing. If you are interested feel free to PM me

Thanks

Dan
 
I'm still interested. But as indicated in the Shops post, I would kinda like to see a finished product, and know it has been functional for a bit of time before plunking down 2 bills.
If you started it up again after a final product has been built and running, I'd bet you would have more folks emailing you via paypal. I would.
 
It comes with a generic black master looks like a match to the brake that HHB and others all list - since it came with it I will start there and see how I like it.

Jameon5:

How do you like your new hydraulic clutch setup? Any surprises? I am curious of the effort needed to disengage the hydraulic clutch compared to stock? Was this setup near plug and play?
 
Jameon5:

How do you like your new hydraulic clutch setup? Any surprises? I am curious of the effort needed to disengage the hydraulic clutch compared to stock? Was this setup near plug and play?

They only surprise so far was how easily it fit into my '75 cases. The install seems very simple as this point. That said... bike is not running yet so I can't comment on how well it works just how well it installed into the cases.
 
Got my "genuine" German engineered Hydraulic clutch set up today. Bought it real early but these kind of parts will never be cheaper than they are today. I already procrastinated myself out of 50 dollars. Now, the trick is to put it somewhere where I will be able to find it in a year or so when I am ready to use it.
 

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That is a good looking package. I still question why the slave is made in two pieces?

I have given up waiting as well, but I have my reservations on the long term suitability of the 2-part slave. I really not throwing stones, as it may work great. But being the OCD type that I am...:shrug:

So. Last week I dropped some parts and design info off to my machinist friend, and we talked about it today. We made some good progress:

1. The reason the bleed screw sticks down (when viewed from the case exterior, which made no sense to me a few weeks ago), is that it is a "tunnel" for air when bleeding, and the other end of the tunnel works best when it is at the top of the slave pocket. DUH. Facing the bleed screw "up" would have put the passage in the bottom of the slave pocket. This illustrates the design process... first ideas are seldom optimal.
2. I started with a nominal 1" piston, based upon previous posts. Used a 25mm brake piston from a Tokico brake caliper, which interestingly enough has (2) flat side o-rings. We were trying to use the same (2)-O-ring design, as we surmised that the outer o-ring is basically a dirt scraper; and living in the primary chain case it would seem prudent to have it. Every turn of the wheel the chain is flinging stuff in there.
3. When layed out on the computer however, with the 25mm brake piston, it became clear that the rear o-ring groove was too close to the housing wall, leaving less than 1/16" clearance material. OK then. :doh:
4. New design is to make a piston, and then mill grooves to put the o-rings on the piston. Problem solved, and I can now get a 1.125" piston in the slave body, helping the slave/piston ratio. It DOES change the wear on materials, in that now the o-rings rub on the aluminum slave material, instead of the stainless/chrome piston. That said, I have both types in my hardware stash - O-rings in caliper bodies, and O-rings mounted on the piston. So this is not without precedence. All that said, if it the slave wall wears prematurely, it is easy enough to make it out of stainless as well.
5. We're using 6061 aluminum for the slave body, which will be inherently stronger than the stock cast aluminum calipers. Per Oddjobs great idea, the piston center will hollowed, and final adjustment will be made with a removable insert. I also like his idea of the clutch rod acting against a ball bearing to minimize/eliminate clutch rotational movement being imparted to the slave piston.

More to come...
 
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