I hit dead end with simplifying the wiring!!!

[Pete78]

I'm working on a '78 special, here is the link to my build:
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28094
I will have Hugh's PMA, Pamco ignition with E-advancer, and I'm in the process to simplify and update electrical components.
I followed different directions I have read in the past few months but I kind of lost track and now I'm confused.
I got rid of the RLU, and light checker. I'm changing the safety relay with a 5 pin headlight relay but not sure on how to connected.
Also not sure on how to enable headlight switch.
I'm updating to a new solenoid and not sure how to connect that either.
My other problem, now that i disconnected the light checker I realized that the center console I fabricated with the pilot lights wont light up no more, is there another way or function I can use theme for?
I'm posting a few pictures along to see what I'm talking about, I could really use some help.
Thanks, Peter

 

[retiredgentleman]

I'm working on a '78 special, here is the link to my build:
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28094
I will have Hugh's PMA, Pamco ignition with E-advancer, and I'm in the process to simplify and update electrical components.
I followed different directions I have read in the past few months but I kind of lost track and now I'm confused.
I got rid of the RLU, and light checker. I'm changing the safety relay with a 5 pin headlight relay but not sure on how to connected.
Also not sure on how to enable headlight switch.
I'm updating to a new solenoid and not sure how to connect that either.
My other problem, now that i disconnected the light checker I realized that the center console I fabricated with the pilot lights wont light up no more, is there another way or function I can use theme for?
I'm posting a few pictures along to see what I'm talking about, I could really use some help.
Thanks, Peter

You're on a journey, but without a road map or GPS. Its not surprising that you're lost.

The next step for you is to decide on a wiring diagram, and that will be your road map. The site has many wiring diagrams. Look around and find the diagram that matches up with your components. There is a thread posted to-day that has PMA/Pamco and E-advancer.

If you are trying to use a combination of old and new wiring, it could be a real struggle. Might be easier to only use new wiring.

Post up the diagram that you are using, and that will show others what you are trying to do.

 

[Pete78]

You're on a journey, but without a road map or GPS. Its not surprising that you're lost.

The next step for you is to decide on a wiring diagram, and that will be your road map. The site has many wiring diagrams. Look around and find the diagram that matches up with your components. There is a thread posted to-day that has PMA/Pamco and E-advancer.

If you are trying to use a combination of old and new wiring, it could be a real struggle. Might be easier to only use new wiring.

Post up the diagram that you are using, and that will show others what you are trying to do.

First, thanks for responding. I want to keep most of the fuctions, that's why I'm keeping the original harness, keeping all original handle bar controls, gauges and new pilot box same color lights. Will have headlight taillight and flashers.

Here is the diagram I've been following so far, it seems too match my wiring the best:

 

[Pete78]

And here is what I'm doing:

 

[Pete78]

Not entirely sure of my self, please correct me if it's wrong.
Other things like the ignition switch, solenoid and now the pilot box I realy need help with.

 

[I am Carbon]

hey Pete
That looks like the OEM solenoid You have there.
If it is like mine blue/white wire connects to the starter button on right handlebar
The red/white wire connects to the safety relay and light checker
The large + battery wire that is bolted to the terminal that also has an other wire on the terminal it should be red that wire is the main power it go to the 20amp fuse in the fuse box then that's the power into the key switch. the other terminal with the large wire goes to the starter terminal.
that how my 80special works

 

[Pete78]

hey Pete
That looks like the OEM solenoid You have there.
If it is like mine blue/white wire connects to the starter button on right handlebar
The red/white wire connects to the safety relay and light checker
The large + battery wire that is bolted to the terminal that also has an other wire on the terminal it should be red that wire is the main power it go to the 20amp fuse in the fuse box then that's the power into the key switch. the other terminal with the large wire goes to the starter terminal.
that how my 80special works

Thanks Carbon, that's how mine is wired now, the thing is that I would like to use this new solenoid and has more than 2 terminals and an integrated fuse:

 

[I am Carbon]

hmmmm sounds like some testing is in order if you don't have the instructions.
Do you have the instructions?

 

[Pete78]

hmmmm sounds like some testing is in order if you don't have the instructions.
Do you have the instructions?

Nope, here is where I got the Idea:
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27710

 

[I am Carbon]

Is that off a cb600? it looks that the one in the link that You posted
That's one crazy system on that bike,I found this in still trying to figure it out

 

[Pete78]

Is that off a cb600? it looks that the one in the link that You posted
That's one crazy system on that bike,I found this in still trying to figure it out

Yes, that's what they sell it as, but this circuit diagrams are confusing to a contractor like myself. I wish I could read diagrams as good as I read plans.

 

[I am Carbon]

I know what You mean Pete
I read blueprints too
But what I really get from this is a lot of things have to be in the correct position to get that thing to work.
on the OEM bike for safety reasons
what I would do is get a battery, some leads, voltmeter and bench test that thing until You have it figured out . should not be to hard

 

[Pete78]

Browsing through cbr diagrams it seem that the fuse acts as the main fuse. One of the 4 terminals connects to a clutch switch, not in our case so that's out, one connects to regulator/rectifier, not sure why, again not in our case so it's out. Now the other 2, one goes to the starter button and the other one is ground. Which one is ground in our case? could that be the starter button because in the handle bar control when pushed it connects to the housing. That would leave the other to the safety relay.
Am I close or completely full of sh...?

 

[Pete78]

I know what You mean Pete
I read blueprints too
But what I really get from this is a lot of things have to be in the correct position to get that thing to work.
on the OEM bike for safety reasons
what I would do is get a battery, some leads, voltmeter and bench test that thing until You have it figured out . should not be to hard

You probably have the right approach Carbon, bench test.

 

[Pete78]

I tested this with a multimeter:
It's a close circuit with fuse in from A(battery+) to 5, 6, 1 and 2. 3 only with 4.
With fuse out, from A stops at 5 and 6 to 1 and 2. 3 only with 4.
Any thoughts?

 

[I am Carbon]

I think parts of the relay don't work till power is applied.
fuse in
what do you get from a to b? I guessing nothing until there is power
what do you get from b to 5 or 6?
what do You get from b to 3 or 4?
what do You get from b to 1 or 2?
does that plastic housing have a ground somewhere?

 

[Pete78]

I think parts of the relay don't work till power is applied.
fuse in
what do you get from a to b? I guessing nothing until there is power
what do you get from b to 5 or 6?
what do You get from b to 3 or 4?
what do You get from b to 1 or 2?
does that plastic housing have a ground somewhere?

Thanks Carbon for trying to help, as always.
I think I figured it out:
Battery+>A>Fuse(5and6)>1 and 2 to power the rest of the bike.
Applying power from battery to 3 and 4 triggers the relay, I'm assuming sending power to B, thus powering the starter motor.
I guess I'll have to connect 3 to starter button purple/white and red/white from safety switch.
Does this make sense?

 

[Pete78]

I think parts of the relay don't work till power is applied.
fuse in
what do you get from a to b? I guessing nothing until there is power
what do you get from b to 5 or 6?
what do You get from b to 3 or 4?
what do You get from b to 1 or 2?
does that plastic housing have a ground somewhere?

To answer to your question B doesn't connect to any numbers, so that's why must go to starter motor.

 

[I am Carbon]

Thanks Carbon for trying to help, as always.
I think I figured it out:
Battery+>A>Fuse(5and6)>1 and 2 to power the rest of the bike.
Applying power from battery to 3 and 4 triggers the relay, I'm assuming sending power to B, thus powering the starter motor.
I guess I'll have to connect 3 to starter button purple/white and red/white from safety switch.
Does this make sense?

sounds right, as long as the safety relay cuts off the starter when the engine fires up
I think we need someone that has much more electrical knowledge than us.
I'm sure You have it figured out so the starter will work. just not sure about the safety relay doing its job

 

[Pete78]

sounds right, as long as the safety relay cuts off the starter when the engine fires up
I think we need someone that has much more electrical knowledge than us.
I'm sure You have it figured out so the starter will work. just not sure about the safety relay doing its job

Definitely need someone knowledgeable to confirm on this and my edited diagram before continuing
I have never wired anything before this.