Installing a Vape all in one charging and ignition system.

Made some temporary bracket for the advance unit and the coil. It's a close fit but they can live underneath the tank.
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Didn't want to weld onto the frame just yet. Want to run this system for a while before I do that.

One thing I'm not sure about (being a former environment test engineer) the advance unit is nicely potted to protect the components from moisture and other ingress. However I doubt that the flip switch is IP rated....

On thing I learned is that you want to prevent components open to the elements to hang downwards. The water droplets will hang on, giving them time to work their way in thru wicking/capillary action. Beter to have it vertically so water runs down.

*Nerd mode out*
 
This weekend I installed the stator and rotor. Took some time to indicate everything as accurate as possible. Since I have to work on the clutch I had the cover over. Before removing the old stator/rotor I put the engine in TDC. I put a mark on the crank gear inline where the cases split.
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I made a wedge out of a scrap piece aluminium to act as a stop, to prevent the crank from rotation during the tightening of the new rotor.
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And added a strip to hold it in place
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Made a pin wrench for the new rotor.
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And finally was able to tighten the rotor without anything moving. Real happy that it worked.
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I didn't see it being mentioned here before, but heiden tuning recommended a tightening torque of 55Nm + medium loctite.
 
You are doing exceptionally fine work .as a craftsman. Top Notch
Manufacturing
I know that there is a need for that in older machines where parts are no longer available

Is there any heat sink mentioned / needed for the Coils .. ?? perhaps provided already.
Most likely you ended up in a dead end --- because of the previous ignition was less forgiving for the wiring modifications or even
something wrong with the unit itself that happens.
Looking forward to the news that it is over solved and finito ...Brum Brum Brum Brum Brum Brum
We have all been there .Scratching our heads and eventually solved it.
A saying " Dont worry to much about today's problems there will be new ones soon " lol
A least with old motorcycles ..
 
Question about the charge control light (green/red), do you guys use that? Did the XS even came with such a light?
No? Not sure what you have? My kit/wiring diagram doesn't have/show a charging light.
 

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Thanks for the kind words Jan. No they mention a lot of things in the manual! But nothing about heat sinking of the coil. Can clearly see it's written by technical people and not the marketing department.

They even recommend putting it under the tank haha. Maybe the stacked metal sheets from the coil double act as a additional heat sink.

@gggGary , haha no my kit did not come with a light! I'm referring to this:
wiring diagram using stock kill switch.gif


See that GN/RT wire from the regulator/rectifier going to a "charge control"? I thought the circle with the cross was a light. I don't have such a light and was wondering what you guys did with this wire.
 
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I’m installing the 277 vape system so I have twice as many components. I managed to fit them under the tank, but like you, was concerned about heat. So I mounted them in an under seat pan. My instructions also have the charge light but since I’m running with a capacitor I made a lead for it but it’s not connected. I have it just in case. I think they never came standard so you would need to make your own dummy light.
 
Question for those of you who installed a 277 vape - did you set the left cylinder to the “top” sensor and the right cylinder to the “bottom” sensor? And the flag gap to TDC on the compression stroke for each? It fires right up but doesn’t sound quite right. I’ve adjusted/inspected the cam chain and valve adjusters three times now because it sounds super clicky like they are way out. Thanks
 
@gggGary , haha no my kit did not come with a light! I'm referring to this:
View attachment 195490
See that GN/RT wire from the regulator/rectifier going to a "charge control"? I thought the circle with the cross was a light. I don't have such a light and was wondering what you guys did with this wire.
@hooser do you recommend putting in a charging light?
 
Yes, my instructions said 41mm so I took a zip tie and cut it as close as I could to that measurement so it would be a bit stiffer than paper but still curve around the rotor. With 750 kit and flat slides with (what felt like) pretty spot on jetting, I got a slight ping at WFO. So I 'tarded the timing to about 38-39mm and it's been happy. done some long-hot-fast rides with it last summer and no complaints

Hey Steve - sorry to bug you again but there are few people here that did the rephase with the vape system. Which cylinders did you match with which pickups? Left cylinder to “top” sensor at the rotor, or right cylinder to “top” sensor? Thanks
 
Hey Steve - sorry to bug you again but there are few people here that did the rephase with the vape system. Which cylinders did you match with which pickups? Left cylinder to “top” sensor at the rotor, or right cylinder to “top” sensor? Thanks
Yep, that’s it, top or left pickup fires left cylinder
Hey Steve - sorry to bug you again but there are few people here that did the rephase with the vape system. Which cylinders did you match with which pickups? Left cylinder to “top” sensor at the rotor, or right cylinder to “top” sensor? Thanks

Yep, that's how I did it, Left cylinder matched to Left (top) pick up. There is not a lot of adjustment beyond setting the gap between flag and sensor so I just trust that it horseshoe handgrenade close enough once you set the top one. I did end up slightly retarding the timing by breaking loose and moving the rotor chasing a slight ping when I first got it going. I think this configuration may be a bit more mechanically noisy than stock. I rode with my buddy who has a bone stock '76 and it was amazing how much more quiet his valves & cam chain are. That said I have a bigger cam profile and heavier valve springs so that's prolly why. Did a 1000 miles on it this past weekend and it ran perfect! Sounded the exact same when I got home as when I left and only used about a half qt of oil. This was the first real big trip I've done with it. What valve lash are you using?
 
Yep, that’s it, top or left pickup fires left cylinder


Yep, that's how I did it, Left cylinder matched to Left (top) pick up. There is not a lot of adjustment beyond setting the gap between flag and sensor so I just trust that it horseshoe handgrenade close enough once you set the top one. I did end up slightly retarding the timing by breaking loose and moving the rotor chasing a slight ping when I first got it going. I think this configuration may be a bit more mechanically noisy than stock. I rode with my buddy who has a bone stock '76 and it was amazing how much more quiet his valves & cam chain are. That said I have a bigger cam profile and heavier valve springs so that's prolly why. Did a 1000 miles on it this past weekend and it ran perfect! Sounded the exact same when I got home as when I left and only used about a half qt of oil. This was the first real big trip I've done with it. What valve lash are you using?


Cool! I got it all figured out now. A stupid error on my part. I set the valves to the exhaust TDC which is why it sounded crazy when I fired it. Not sure what I was smoking. I started from scratch top down and realized the error. I reached out to Hoos and they said right cylinder first to the top sensor so that had my head really spinning. Maybe I misunderstood. Maybe they rephase theirs opposite - had mine done by Hugh. I’m using .08mm on the intake and .15mm on the exhaust.

Thanks for responding and giving me some piece of mind. Can’t wait to take it out hopefully next week
 
Little update, got the system working! Starts pretty easy and seems to do as advertised.

It is interfering with the Speedo/tacho for sure. It's works while driving but at idle the needle keeps "swiping" like it does when you power te bike on. I red something somewhere on the internet to put a capasitor on the tacho powersupply to damp it. No idea how that works. Maybe someone here knows how?

I'm gonna try to install some 1k ohm resistor caps too. Vape recommends that over the standard 5k. Maybe it helps with interference to.

Btw should I check the timing ? And how would I do that with the lack of a fire marking?
 

Here is what I'm talking about. The needle is stable showing the rpms (haven't verified its showing the right number yet). But when the bike is idling the tacho seems to go off/on and "swiping the needle".

What's the difference in application between a resistor and capasitor? I got a 470mF capasitor to put on the tacho power supply wire.
 
Try the cap,won't hurt anything the OLE XS pulses are so far apart at idle the poor tach thinks you shut the power off and turn it back on. :rolleyes:
 
What's the difference in application between a resistor and capasitor? I got a 470mF capasitor to put on the tacho power supply wire.
The idea here is the cap acts as a aux power source, more commonly thought of as a battery. :sneaky:
If the tach power line goes to zero, the (already charged) cap discharges to try and maintain line voltage. As long as the transients are short duration, it should do the trick.
 
Swapped the Vape coil leads for the stock XS ones. With 5k resistor caps, same plugs. Tacho/Speedo works great now! Very pleased to say this haha.

Ordered some 1k caps to try to. Since the recommended that:
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Also tried to verify the rpm reading with the OEM tacho. The electronic one seems to run about 400 rpm lower that the mechanical one.
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Don't know if that is even tweakable . Anyway it's not Vape related. I plan on testing the setup for the rest of the season. Keep you guys posted if I learn more!
 
I guess you could use a Fluke or other multimeter with a Hz setting to verify the rpm readings. Or even one of those optical tachometers that read a reflective sticker that you can put on a shaft or flywheel. Or in fact calibrate the speedometer as precise as you can, then calculate backwards through wheel circumference and transmission ratios to find actual rpm.

BTW, at what RPM does the Daytona Tach read 400 rpm lower than the mechanical tacho?
 
Good one, the OEM mechanical tacho could be off too. Well the readings differ. At some points I looked like the reading was pretty much identical, some rpms there was a difference. The 400 is about the max deviation I observed.

Yes I calibrated the Speedo initially with the GPS at a fixed speed. Since the wheel circumstance mode was not working for me. However I've been shimming the speed sensor since it was not giving me good readings. Last time it went up to max 80kmh. Brought the sensing head closer to the wheel and now it red up to 140 (ran out of road). Just want verify so the total km will ok.
 
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