Is it my turn? Anything to do with lathes, mills and other shop tools

Paul Sutton

I Collect Fingers
Top Contributor
XS650.com Supporter
Messages
2,533
Reaction score
6,355
Points
513
Location
Cardiff UK
I assume the 101.212 and the 101.21200 are the same machine - perhaps I am wrong??? I guess you already have the 101.212 manual. If not then here is a link to a copy:

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/222/3442.pdf

The exploded diagram Pg 13 does not show a washer behind the bearings. The parts list says they are ball bearings which seems a little odd to me give the axial forces involved.

My apologies if this is not much help.
 

kopcicle

antidisestablishmentarian
Messages
721
Reaction score
937
Points
93
Location
47.35505060411234, -122.14179205869286
My apologies if this is not much help.
It's all in the doing. No worries. I can't properly maintain or protect tapered roller bearings and as you say I too find, have found and still find even a deep groove ball bearing to be a bit odd considering the axial loads.
So 6205 is a 7205 in angular contact bearings and 30205 is the tapered roller bearing .

At issue here is the much lighter preload that the angular contact bearings require compared to the tapered roller bearings. The 10100 has the tapered roller bearings and the 701-088 spindle.
The 101.212 (mine) uses the ball bearings and the 701-083 spindle.
I'll include the spindle drawings and save you the trouble of looking for my boggle. The 701-083 has no threads or nut to preload tapered roller bearings. However a stout wave washer placed between the spindle back gear(pg 17 ref #5 341-374) and the retaining collar(pg 17 ref #7 123-140) will be enough to preload the angular contact ball bearings.
Of course installation becomes a bit of a trick as you have to compress the assembly and then tighten the setscrews.

Yes , once I get the lathe operational I can make any damn spindle I want :)

* You wouldn't happen to know where I could purchase any shot out, worn out .50 BMG barrels would ya ?
 

Attachments

  • 701-083.PDF
    276 KB · Views: 17
  • 701-088 Spindle, Headstock.jpg
    701-088 Spindle, Headstock.jpg
    82.5 KB · Views: 21

Paul Sutton

I Collect Fingers
Top Contributor
XS650.com Supporter
Messages
2,533
Reaction score
6,355
Points
513
Location
Cardiff UK
I thought cutting the Morse Taper would be a difficult thing, I even tried it once and got very very close without a reamer. I see that Morse Taper reamers are readily available now at quite a reasonable price. Making a DIY spindle has become so much easier - If you have a working lathe to start off with.

I just ordered an MT1 finishing reamer on Saturday for £13 so I can clean up the tailstock on my lathe which has some crap stuck in it. The MT2 reamer is about £18. Does the BMG barrel have enough meat on it for a spindle? At least it is prebored!
 

kopcicle

antidisestablishmentarian
Messages
721
Reaction score
937
Points
93
Location
47.35505060411234, -122.14179205869286
Does the BMG barrel have enough meat on it for a spindle?
See my drawings above. Yes it has enough diameter to make "my" spindle. 1.375" major OD , the .500" is a convenience as the bore is around .531"

Although something like 12L14 would be easier to machine I would use a Pre Hard like 4130. This also give me the option of a kluge for a tool post grinder and possible needle bearings for the drive pulley rather than the bushings. I had a metal supplier that would supply 1/2" holes in 1 3/8"-1 1/2" stock for not much more than plain round stock. Times change.
 

Paul Sutton

I Collect Fingers
Top Contributor
XS650.com Supporter
Messages
2,533
Reaction score
6,355
Points
513
Location
Cardiff UK
I like it Rhy650...:hump:

Does a plan exist for this engine , or is it just put together based on things you have seen? I started to make one in 1974 and again in 2015 but just got side tracked so never finished.

Now I have a small milling machine to go with my lathe. I was going to buy the mill in 3 years when I retire. I was going to buy it with the money I already have in the bank collecting 0% interest so decided to buy it now and get some extra years use out of it. I settled on a near new condition Grizzly G8689 fitted with xyz digital slide rules. I already have tooling available from the milling attachment for my lathe. I have spent the last 2 nights making a few minor repairs and a copper hammer for the drawbar.

Stock Photo:

1651096170751.png
 

Rhy650

XS650 Addict
Top Contributor
XS650.com Supporter
Messages
211
Reaction score
1,039
Points
143
Location
Ozark, MO
Does a plan exist for this engine
Oh yes, I really can't take too much credit for it... The plans were developed for the beginning machinist by a guy in the UK, Ade Swash. There are even videos to accompany the plans if you get stuck. There are also plans for several different variations. I have a bunch of stock leftover and am eyeing one of the horizontal versions or maybe a model hammer for the engine to run. Here are some links:

Website

YouTube Channel
 

toglhot

XS650 Addict
Top Contributor
Messages
330
Reaction score
1,135
Points
143
Location
Adelaide
These are a couple of powerfiles I made. Both worked on 12-18 volts, I just used 18 volt cordless tool batteries, but they did work off car batteries as well. First one was made from Delrin, second from 10mm ally.
 

Attachments

  • 241952260_3093072464286112_8956345376015126395_n.jpg
    241952260_3093072464286112_8956345376015126395_n.jpg
    215.8 KB · Views: 14
  • 241848561_3093072317619460_8933049965735440637_n.jpg
    241848561_3093072317619460_8933049965735440637_n.jpg
    39.7 KB · Views: 14
  • belt4.jpg
    belt4.jpg
    217.4 KB · Views: 14
  • belt1.jpg
    belt1.jpg
    156.4 KB · Views: 13

Paul Sutton

I Collect Fingers
Top Contributor
XS650.com Supporter
Messages
2,533
Reaction score
6,355
Points
513
Location
Cardiff UK
Thank you Rhy650...:) I've got the baby mill repaired and working now so need some metal to chew on.
 

kopcicle

antidisestablishmentarian
Messages
721
Reaction score
937
Points
93
Location
47.35505060411234, -122.14179205869286
Wall O Text to follow

http://www.lathes.co.uk/duro/

Okay there is a tale to be told here. I'm not going to tell it all at once, not because I'm being miserly about the details but I'd rather most of this tale was about the mill instead of " I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts! IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD! "

Okay to the mill. Tony of course has the best general information on this mill. I received it with both vertical and horizontal spindles and rudimentary tooling. I had to, sniffle, store at my brother's as I try to gain the space for it here. I'm severely limited on space here and have a way to go before I can really make use of it. I don't even have electricity in the shed let alone bench space. I mean I have to have a bench before I can have bench space.

Speaking of limited space , let's talk about the usable work area. 12 1/2" x 5 1/2" x 9 1/2" under the horizontal, 8 1/2" under the vertical. Still it's a lot better than none.
So the Zed is all in the knee, no quill. It's a heavy beast for it's size at #255 w/o motor. The tapers are 2MT for both Horizontal and vertical. The horizontal has 7/8" and 1" arbors.

First Job after lubing, lapping, mapping, tramming, square , level and plumb is cutting gears.
My slots are 18 3/16" long then I look at the BS-0 index heads, then I look at my work area, then I look at the dividing head again, then I look at my minuscule work box and the Dividing head and tailstock take up 15 1/2" .
I've not given in yet. I have access to some unique alloy and steel drops from a business I used to for. There's nothing keeping me from mounting the spinner and tail to a tooling plate and bolting the whole mess to the table.

I'd like to cut the gears with the horizontal spindle and overarm. It just seems more stable than trying to do it from the vertical with single sided support.

Then there is the arbor/cutter dilemma. I have a 7/8" arbor but single 24DP 14 1/2PA cutters are close to $4o each.
I can get the entire 8 cutter set in 22mm ID for $76 and the 22mm arbor for another $100

Well, get used to these 2% solutions that are curiously associated with AVB far in excess of 7% but not necessarily so. I unscrew the feet from my 6" lathe and bolt it to the table and figure out how to index the spindle from there. At this point it's probably best that the lathe and mill don't live in the same place. For now bot the lathe and the mill are safe from this particular kluge.

Last but not least there is the stock itself. I figure that Clausing got away with Zamak change gears for decades. I've seen PLA printed gears hold up with no visible damage. Somehow I can't bring myself to make the gears out of aluminum. This leaves me with 12L14. If you've never carved on 12L14 I don't know that I can explain. If you have carved on 12L14 I don't have to explain. In case you are wondering why I plan on making a variety of pinion and spur gear stock , you'll have to wait while I re educate myself in modern CAD CAM .

Enough for now
 

Attachments

  • e82412094fa1cb44753a968c4ccb2fd41b25d9f8-3.jpeg
    e82412094fa1cb44753a968c4ccb2fd41b25d9f8-3.jpeg
    274.9 KB · Views: 18
  • 006.JPG
    006.JPG
    359.5 KB · Views: 19
  • 7.JPG
    7.JPG
    346.2 KB · Views: 18
  • us_5CFDT000000000001V0_source-img_dividing-head-m100-8.jpg
    us_5CFDT000000000001V0_source-img_dividing-head-m100-8.jpg
    242.8 KB · Views: 18

kopcicle

antidisestablishmentarian
Messages
721
Reaction score
937
Points
93
Location
47.35505060411234, -122.14179205869286
Thank you Rhy650...:) I've got the baby mill repaired and working now so need some metal to chew on.
Paul , while I'm here...
Bearing 7205 B 2RS . It's an angular contact bearing , 25mm x 52mm x 15mm
I suppose I could look it up again but isn't that a spridget wheel bearing?
You are not going to believe what they are getting for them here.
My one time accommodating German suppliers will no longer ship to me. I got a one word answer
" politics"
I may have to beg a bog of bearings :-/ Not that I wouldn't pay but when I talked to a bearing house in the midlands all went well until I gave them a US shipping address.

More on this another time Paul :)
 

Paul Sutton

I Collect Fingers
Top Contributor
XS650.com Supporter
Messages
2,533
Reaction score
6,355
Points
513
Location
Cardiff UK
This particular bearing via UK Ebay ranges from £6.25 to about £110. There are a lot in the region of £15. I wouldn't go for the cheapest, instead I'd try to obtain one from a quality supplier. There may be the possibility that you just use the deep groove bearings and see how they stand up with time. Let me know if you need help from the UK.
 

gggGary

Simplest truths meet the sternest resistance F D
Top Contributor
XS650.com Supporter
Messages
26,841
Reaction score
41,305
Points
813
Location
Baraboo, WI, USA
What I usually find looking for things like bearings is an industrial scrapper/reseller has a limited quantity of high quality NOS parts that came out of some plant's maintenance stock, is that the case here?
7205 B 2RS


Dummy left the door open the other day. Didn't notice til last night, F-me!
KIMG1017.JPG
Already sprayed down here, it'll clean up with a quick stoning but I hadn't oiled it after getting it all cleaned up, warm humid air hit cold steel. :doh:
 
Last edited:

Paul Sutton

I Collect Fingers
Top Contributor
XS650.com Supporter
Messages
2,533
Reaction score
6,355
Points
513
Location
Cardiff UK
If you use automotive oils the metal will discolor again. These oils contain additives that attract moisture. I have read that chainsaw chain oil is a better choice.
 
Last edited:

Paul Sutton

I Collect Fingers
Top Contributor
XS650.com Supporter
Messages
2,533
Reaction score
6,355
Points
513
Location
Cardiff UK
I started planning a small steam engine but got diverted to my back door which has two broken hinges. Unfortunately the hinges are no longer available, something to do with the doors being +40 years old. Modern versions are the wrong size. So I bought some brass for about £15 and spent the last two days on the lathe and mill. In the photo there is an old hinge next to the new ones. The new hinges are made from two parts soldered together. The cylindrical part has a 6mm deep keyway where the clamp section is inserted and soldered. The keyway and clamp section were both pre-tinned to ensure a good solder joint. The total area of solder is 7.3cm2 or 1.1 square inches so should be strong enough...:cautious:

The doors are high quality and would cost about £2000 to replace. You see, the mill has paid for itself with one job...:cheers:. I need some silver paint now.

Hinge.JPG
 
Top