Just out of curiosity - Airplane Guys

[Jim]

Funny story.... back in the 90's I was a flight mechanic for Ryan International Airlines.... 727's mostly, and those were 3 man airplanes. One day my boss called me and said Ryan would foot the bill for me to go down to Tampa and get my engineers rating.
I was pretty excited about that. A 727 engineers ticket cost about 15 grand at the time.
The week before my class date he finally let slip that Ryan paid their engineers about 2/3 of what I was already making as a flt mech.
Kinda pissed me off that they weren't planning on sharing that bit of info until after I was certified. Told 'em to piss off. My time at Ryan went downhill pretty quick after that.

 

[jetmechmarty]

Funny story.... back in the 90's I was a flight mechanic for Ryan International Airlines.... 727's mostly, and those were 3 man airplanes. One day my boss called me and said Ryan would foot the bill for me to go down to Tampa and get my engineers rating.
I was pretty excited about that. A 727 engineers ticket cost about 15 grand at the time.
The week before my class date he finally let slip that Ryan paid their engineers about 2/3 of what I was already making as a flt mech.
Kinda pissed me off that they weren't planning on sharing that bit of info until after I was certified. Told 'em to piss off. My time at Ryan went downhill pretty quick after that.

I did the flight mech gig too. That cert came up, but 727s we’re going away fast. Where I was working was strictly 757/767. Fun stuff! Seeing the world!

 

[jpdevol]

Heard stories about jet fighters flying under the bridge .. Not sure if true

Grandpa Devol was ~33 when WWII broke out. He left OH and enlisted in the RCAF and was later transferred back to the Eighth USAF. Grandma and Dad lived on a farm outside Marietta. Story goes that Grandpa - now a ferry pilot - would land P-40's, P-51's - at the farm enroute on a ferry mission. Then being an inherent show-off would turn up-on-a-wing and fly it between buildings up Putnam St and then under the Williamstown Bridge (there were local newspaper clippings)

 

[40north]

I gradually stopped using airplanes when "they" started the funny stuff, like x-rays and searching people without probable cause. Did a few hours in Cessna 50 years ago, and a couple of times a brief feel of the yoke on the jumpclub DC-3 at Lodi. De-crewing offends my sense of propriety. I got a kick out of high altitude stalls in the Cessna... Not the right kinna fella to ever get a airplane license, but I might, might, yet do the untralight routine. There are some wild places not far away, Ishi Country and canyons... Yes, flying canyons is not safe... if I do it I'll be cautious, dead calm summer morning and all of that.

Thanks for the updating y'all. Best!

 

[Raymond]

Why do they have pilots in airliners? Often a flying accident is due to pilot error, so eliminate the pilot, eliminate pilot errors.

Watched a documentary a few years back about a Lufthansa Boeing Dreamliner flight, I think they were inaugurating the Frankfurt to LA route. The pilot said, 'The plane flies itself. I have a PC here and if the plane has a problem, then we can reboot the avionics. Otherwise, we do nothing at all.

I don't know how literally true that is. My mate who flies 737s always says his job is mostly management and he only 'flies' take offs and landings, which are a mixture of the plane flying itself and a few pilot inputs. Mostly, he does paperwork and reads the newspaper. 'Oh, there's the Alps - isn't that beautiful.'

But somehow I'm sure there would be customer resistance to flights with no human pilot on board.

Maybe this post belongs on https://www.xs650.com/threads/should-we-be-afraid-of-artificial-intelligence.63904/

 

[Adamc]

Why do they have pilots in airliners? Often a flying accident is due to pilot error, so eliminate the pilot, eliminate pilot errors.

Watched a documentary a few years back about a Lufthansa Boeing Dreamliner flight, I think they were inaugurating the Frankfurt to LA route. The pilot said, 'The plane flies itself. I have a PC here and if the plane has a problem, then we can reboot the avionics. Otherwise, we do nothing at all.

I don't know how literally true that is. My mate who flies 737s always says his job is mostly management and he only 'flies' take offs and landings, which are a mixture of the plane flying itself and a few pilot inputs. Mostly, he does paperwork and reads the newspaper. 'Oh, there's the Alps - isn't that beautiful.'

But somehow I'm sure there would be customer resistance to flights with no human pilot on board.

Maybe this post belongs on https://www.xs650.com/threads/should-we-be-afraid-of-artificial-intelligence.63904/

Good point there Raymond.
I watch Air Crash Investigations on National Geographic, and often it is pilot error that causes the disaster.
However it is also often a mechanical / electrical / hydraulic issue that dooms the flight. Occasionally the pilot is the saviour and lands the stricken bird saving many lives; a hero is then given the accolades he deserves.

 

[Raymond]

I think the reason we all prefer a human pilot is exactly that - to react when something goes wrong. The unexpected, unplanned or even impossible event. People respond to issues like that much better than machines.

 

[jetmechmarty]

You need the pilot on board in case the mechanic screwed something up.

 

[46th Georgia]

Grandpa Devol was ~33 when WWII broke out. He left OH and enlisted in the RCAF and was later transferred back to the Eighth USAF. Grandma and Dad lived on a farm outside Marietta. Story goes that Grandpa - now a ferry pilot - would land P-40's, P-51's - at the farm enroute on a ferry mission. Then being an inherent show-off would turn up-on-a-wing and fly it between buildings up Putnam St and then under the Williamstown Bridge (there were local newspaper clippings)
View attachment 240788

Awesome!!

 

[46th Georgia]

I gradually stopped using airplanes when "they" started the funny stuff, like x-rays and searching people without probable cause. Did a few hours in Cessna 50 years ago, and a couple of times a brief feel of the yoke on the jumpclub DC-3 at Lodi. De-crewing offends my sense of propriety. I got a kick out of high altitude stalls in the Cessna... Not the right kinna fella to ever get a airplane license, but I might, might, yet do the untralight routine. There are some wild places not far away, Ishi Country and canyons... Yes, flying canyons is not safe... if I do it I'll be cautious, dead calm summer morning and all of that.

Thanks for the updating y'all. Best!

Yep, I don't fly or attend events that feel the "need" to pat me down, wand me etc. either.

 

[40north]

I suppose the passenger "confidence" is higher with a pilot, after all, he's gunna die too, right?

But for modern airplane companies it's really all about the money, isn't it?

A factor may be that so long as there is a pilot, there's also a fall guy, so to say.

Bigbusiness legal departments love fall guys. They get the passengers to pay for the fall guy, who works for the company... But they don't worry about enhanced sudden death and/or myocarditis in pilots due to some sort of funny business with injections...do they?

I remember a Korean (?) airplane on approach to SFO came in a couple of meters low and hit the riprap'd levee at the end of the strip..the pilots were fiddling with lap-tops or some such...AIR (as i recall) Without the pilots, well, who will take the blame? Call me cynical.

Y'alls have a wealth of personal knowledge . I enjoy the stories fellas. Thanks. & Best!

 

[Jim]

Sully ditching in the Hudson. Think about that. Controllers kept calling out airports "they" thought he could make.
Sully made the decision to ditch 'cause in his mind (a mind loaded with years of actual experience) that was the only course of action with a reasonable chance of success.

Could an AI pilot make that call? Or would it have turned right when the controller called out "Teterboro's off to you right at about 3 miles sir"...?
Would todays AI say "unable"... or would it turn right?

 

[40north]

Sully ditching in the Hudson. Think about that. Controllers kept calling out airports "they" thought he could make.
Sully made the decision to ditch 'cause in his mind (a mind loaded with years of actual experience) that was the only course of action with a reasonable chance of success.

Could an AI pilot make that call? Or would it have turned right when the controller called out "Teterboro's off to you right at about 3 miles sir"...?
Would todays AI say "unable"... or would it turn right?

"I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave..."

 

[Mailman]

Sully ditching in the Hudson. Think about that. Controllers kept calling out airports "they" thought he could make.

That was exactly the example I was just about to recite!

 

[Raymond]

. . . the unexpected, unplanned or even impossible event . . .

of course, impossible events don't happen in the real world, only unforeseen combinations of bad factors or pilot error or some other cause.

But in the virtual world of machines, an 'impossible' event is one that failed to be taken into account at the Functional Spec or design phases. Well at least until they manage to perfect self-reprogramming, self-training, self-motivating computer programs - soon run into areas Musk would be uncomfortable with.

But fallible humans fall back on guess, estimate, recognise analogous f*** ups which, is why

. . . people respond to issues like that much better than machines . . .

EDIT Sorry for quoting my own post above.

 

[Jan_P]

I suppose the passenger "confidence" is higher with a pilot, after all, he's gunna die too, right?

But for modern airplane companies it's really all about the money, isn't it?

A factor may be that so long as there is a pilot, there's also a fall guy, so to say.

Bigbusiness legal departments love fall guys. They get the passengers to pay for the fall guy, who works for the company... But they don't worry about enhanced sudden death and/or myocarditis in pilots due to some sort of funny business with injections...do they?

I remember a Korean (?) airplane on approach to SFO came in a couple of meters low and hit the riprap'd levee at the end of the strip..the pilots were fiddling with lap-tops or some such...AIR (as i recall) Without the pilots, well, who will take the blame? Call me cynical.

Y'alls have a wealth of personal knowledge . I enjoy the stories fellas. Thanks. & Best!

Yes I think that is a good point the Pilot is in the plane .
And I also like the idea of Experienced Professionals making their own Decisions using their own judgment

I remember when I started with Air condition installations it Many times was high up in the air.
It was talk of sending me up 8 meters as fresh on the Job.But the Senior site boss said.NO
No beginner at that height .Scaffolding was not always up to par so to speak. Back then He needs some experience and we need to see if ha can cope with it if he is suitable for the job.

Another time at that site ... job was going on and there was a big A** compressor on the floor
Sending out noise and exhaust fumes ..

Site boss climbed down the 8 meter ---Said --- Move that thing or we go home .We cant communicate Up here.
Its dangerous find someone else.
Higher ups sometimes applied pressure Threatening to fire but overall . Some harsh words close to fist flying sometimes But over all It worked ..And few accidents.

An experienced pilot with some Balls can do the same thing.. Kicking the tires or whatnot before taking off.
If he dont like it
Find someone else I am not gonna take off with this heap of scrap .. And I believe the passengers also want that ..

 

[jetmechmarty]

There have been instances where the automation commanded the pilot to do one thing and he chose to do the opposite, resulting in the deaths of many. There’s that too.

 

[Adamc]

Not an aeroplane (and should be on Mailman’s AI thread) but my LG washing machine can self diagnose any fault. You then put you mobile next to it and it starts the process of calling a tech out to fix it. He arrives with the right parts to fix it. Only used the service once in 5 years, but it worked!

 

[Adamc]

 

[Adamc]