Worse than that, the versions prior to that one had no ejection seat for the nav, so he had to scramble his way out while the pilot was long gone.
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Just out of curiosity - Airplane Guys
- Thread starter Downeaster
- Start date
Having followed a lot of accident investigations, a club to incapacitate an "in over his head" pilot and this button could save a lot of lives.
Unfortunately the phrase "snatched defeat from the jaws of victory" comes to mind.
Unfortunately the phrase "snatched defeat from the jaws of victory" comes to mind.
Are those planes not able to fly on one motor only.
this one appears to drop .. or is the pilot attempting to climb ? and lose speed and lift ?
this one appears to drop .. or is the pilot attempting to climb ? and lose speed and lift ?
You can see that just after liftoff, it had a pretty considerable yaw to the right. The old adage "dead foot, dead engine" tells us the right engine most likely lost power. All twins have a shingle engine climb speed... V-2. It's the speed needed to safely continue a climb if you lose an engine. BUT.... that only works if you properly configure the airplane. That means the drag producing landing gear has to come up. Most twins won't maintain V-2 with all that drag hanging out the bottom.
Watch the video.... for the gear. It never even started retracting. Airspeed decays and you fall behind the power curve. Your only option at that point is to lower the nose (to hold what little airspeed you have), clean the airplane up, and hope you get back above V-2 before you run out of altitude.
This is all guesswork on my part...
Right engine failure.
Failure to clean up the airplane.
Failure to maintain V-2
Speed and altitude decayed until CFIT (Controlled Flight into Terrain).
The 3 most useless things to a pilot...
The runway behind you.
The altitude above you.
The airspeed you don't have.
Watch the video.... for the gear. It never even started retracting. Airspeed decays and you fall behind the power curve. Your only option at that point is to lower the nose (to hold what little airspeed you have), clean the airplane up, and hope you get back above V-2 before you run out of altitude.
This is all guesswork on my part...
Right engine failure.
Failure to clean up the airplane.
Failure to maintain V-2
Speed and altitude decayed until CFIT (Controlled Flight into Terrain).
The 3 most useless things to a pilot...
The runway behind you.
The altitude above you.
The airspeed you don't have.
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Thank you Jim for insights
Come to think of it at one place for motor enthusiast they had aeroplane exhibitions and also local rock bands on a small stage
They had WW 1 planes I Believe Sopwith camel
Landing and taking off
It was told that the engine was not so strong there was a need to get the ground speed up before pulling the stick trying to take off
Doing it to soon it lifted but just a little and not being able to climb
Continuing flying parallel to ground until something was stopping the flight a Hedge or House or whatnot.
It was no airfield to speak off a meadow with cut grass. But big ...plenty of space for ground travel
Come to think of it at one place for motor enthusiast they had aeroplane exhibitions and also local rock bands on a small stage
They had WW 1 planes I Believe Sopwith camel
Landing and taking off
It was told that the engine was not so strong there was a need to get the ground speed up before pulling the stick trying to take off
Doing it to soon it lifted but just a little and not being able to climb
Continuing flying parallel to ground until something was stopping the flight a Hedge or House or whatnot.
It was no airfield to speak off a meadow with cut grass. But big ...plenty of space for ground travel
No visibility landing........
Lot of stick movement on the way in too.
Lot of stick movement on the way in too.
AUTOMAN
XS650 Addict
Another view out there, no flaps no slats!
242 souls and full of fuel.
242 souls and full of fuel.
Captain Steeve weighs in
AUTOMAN
XS650 Addict
Shows the wrong angles in this video, but classic stall after take-off.
Point; take off flaps are like 5 degrees, landing flaps are more like 30 degrees, simplified description of what are complex systems on an airliner but the general idea.
I am with Jim so far
2 experienced pilots making big mistakes .Sending Mayday instead of checking switches.
Never been in the Cockpit ..but as a passenger in the plane one can hear things move after liftoff
I think I have seen it flaps moving and making the Sound Hydraulics.
Some warning light for landing gear should be on.
Experienced pilots knowing of the load -- full plane would make adaptions to the manner setting off
More throttle longer time on ground. I guess something have happened with the forward force
Pilot keeping the angle of attack as normal to long but with less motor force.
One motor more likely than both
Dropping it no time to react lowering the nose. Trying to save it on one motor
2 experienced pilots making big mistakes .Sending Mayday instead of checking switches.
Never been in the Cockpit ..but as a passenger in the plane one can hear things move after liftoff
I think I have seen it flaps moving and making the Sound Hydraulics.
Some warning light for landing gear should be on.
Experienced pilots knowing of the load -- full plane would make adaptions to the manner setting off
More throttle longer time on ground. I guess something have happened with the forward force
Pilot keeping the angle of attack as normal to long but with less motor force.
One motor more likely than both
Dropping it no time to react lowering the nose. Trying to save it on one motor
I know there's speculation about the flaps not being at TO (take off) position, but that answer will have to wait until the FDR (flt data recorder) has been downloaded.
Boeings use what's called Fowler flaps. They're a type of flap that not only extend down, but also move aft at the same time. This increases wing area for TO & landings. The first flap position on most Boeings is 5°... which is normally for take offs and not landings. Here's what happens at 5°....
The outboard leading edge slats will extend (on some models ALL leading edge devices will extend). At the same time, the trailing edge flaps will move aft and down... but mostly just aft. There will be very little down movement to 'em.
I can tell you from many yrs working Boeings that if you were standing 100yds behind the jet when they extended to 5°, you literally couldn't tell. 90% of that extension is aft. The 5° down part of it is almost imperceptible. Think about it... 5° of anything is almost nothing.... and not near enough to be visible on grainy videos.
And as was pointed out in the video above, these jets have a "Config Warning" system. It's not a "Caution"... it's a Warning... it's loud, it's obnoxious... it's impossible to ignore!! It's also redundant... there's 2 of 'em and they compare themselves to each other. That system was incorporated into the 727-200 back in the 80's after a few fatal accidents for exactly this reason, pilots taking off without the flaps set to the TO position.
No... it's still not impossible to take off without the flaps properly configured... but it's almost impossible. I'm of the opinion they're barking up the wrong tree looking at the flaps as a cause.
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That crash is a big tragedy. Not sure what is going on with aviation in 2025.
There have been wild and sensationalist speculations by even reputable YouTubers. (like the one above)
I understand that a lot of people just like closure and also want someone to blame and shift their anger toward.
Lots of blame going around, some pointing fingers at Boeing, some blaming pilots for "rookie mistakes" but 0 proof so far.
I prefer to wait for the CVR and FDR data to see what it shows actually happened for real, without guessing.
The next several months will be interesting as facts come out from the investigation.
No matter whose fault this was, the tragedy is still present and cannot be erased.
R.I.P.
There have been wild and sensationalist speculations by even reputable YouTubers. (like the one above)
I understand that a lot of people just like closure and also want someone to blame and shift their anger toward.
Lots of blame going around, some pointing fingers at Boeing, some blaming pilots for "rookie mistakes" but 0 proof so far.
I prefer to wait for the CVR and FDR data to see what it shows actually happened for real, without guessing.
The next several months will be interesting as facts come out from the investigation.
No matter whose fault this was, the tragedy is still present and cannot be erased.
R.I.P.
Ya do what ya gotta do....
