-
Enjoy XS650.com? Consider making a donation to help support the site.
XS650.com receives a small share of sales from some links on this page, but direct donations have a much greater impact on keeping this site going.
Just out of curiosity - Airplane Guys
- Thread starter Downeaster
- Start date
I want one!
Air India crash.
(CNN)
According to the report by India’s Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau, obtained by CNN, the fuel control switches in the cockpit of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner had been flipped, starving the engines of fuel.
Investigators were able to get data out of the plane’s “black box” recorders, including 49 hours of flight data and two hours of cockpit audio, including from the crash.
The aircraft had reached an airspeed of 180 knots when both engines’ fuel cutoff switches were “transitioned from RUN to CUTOFF position one after another with a time gap of 01 sec,” according to the report.
“In the cockpit voice recording, one of the pilots is heard asking the other why did he cutoff. The other pilot responded that he did not do so,” the report reads.
Shortly after, the switches were reversed back to where they should have been, and the engines were in the process of powering back up when the crash happened.
On the 787, the fuel cutoff switches are between the two pilots’ seats, immediately behind the plane’s throttle levers. They are protected on the sides by a metal bar and have a locking mechanism designed to prevent accidental cutoff.
Airport footage shows the Ram Air Turbine, an emergency power source on an aircraft, deployed during the plane’s initial climb after takeoff, the report said. The plane started to lose altitude before crossing the airport perimeter wall.
“When fuel control switches are moved from CUTOFF to RUN while the aircraft is inflight, each engines full authority dual engine control automatically manages a relight and thrust recovery sequence of ignition and fuel introduction,” the report states.
Seconds after the engines attempted to relight, one pilot called out, “MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY.”
(CNN)
According to the report by India’s Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau, obtained by CNN, the fuel control switches in the cockpit of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner had been flipped, starving the engines of fuel.
Investigators were able to get data out of the plane’s “black box” recorders, including 49 hours of flight data and two hours of cockpit audio, including from the crash.
The aircraft had reached an airspeed of 180 knots when both engines’ fuel cutoff switches were “transitioned from RUN to CUTOFF position one after another with a time gap of 01 sec,” according to the report.
“In the cockpit voice recording, one of the pilots is heard asking the other why did he cutoff. The other pilot responded that he did not do so,” the report reads.
Shortly after, the switches were reversed back to where they should have been, and the engines were in the process of powering back up when the crash happened.
On the 787, the fuel cutoff switches are between the two pilots’ seats, immediately behind the plane’s throttle levers. They are protected on the sides by a metal bar and have a locking mechanism designed to prevent accidental cutoff.
Airport footage shows the Ram Air Turbine, an emergency power source on an aircraft, deployed during the plane’s initial climb after takeoff, the report said. The plane started to lose altitude before crossing the airport perimeter wall.
“When fuel control switches are moved from CUTOFF to RUN while the aircraft is inflight, each engines full authority dual engine control automatically manages a relight and thrust recovery sequence of ignition and fuel introduction,” the report states.
Seconds after the engines attempted to relight, one pilot called out, “MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY.”
Last edited:
Here's one of those switches... that type. This is 3 position, otherwise identical to the 2 position cutoff switches. You have to pull straight out with a hefty pull, then move the switch to either position. It's a hefty spring that wants a hefty pull. It has to be moved intentionally. There's no way to accidentally move the switches.
Last edited:
Any Likelihood of technical Malfunction ?
+ Jim Congratulations to the first analysis engine stall
And a restart attempt can mean a sideways tendency
+ Jim Congratulations to the first analysis engine stall
And a restart attempt can mean a sideways tendency
They know the why. The engines shut down. Now as to how/why it happened that may never be known. As Jim showed the switches take a very deliberate physical action to change their state/position. Leaves 3 possibilities in my mind. Deliberate by a pilot. Very possible, very hard to prove. Since the switch controls electricity there could have been a physical failure/damage with the wiring. Or 3rd a software glitch. That is not out of the question. I know 787s have been flying for a lot of years. That does not mean their code is perfect.
I spent the last 20+? years of my working career programing PLCs. Yes they are not a computer but they follow their code/instructions. Several times I was making changes on systems that had been running for 15, 20 or more years. A section would freeze. I would get the plant to give me the time to find the cause. The cause would a problem with the program/code. It just took the exact wrong things to happen to make happen.
2 things I learned programming. No code is bullet proof and if it can happen eventually it will.
With all that being said said I could be wrong on all 3 accounts.
I spent the last 20+? years of my working career programing PLCs. Yes they are not a computer but they follow their code/instructions. Several times I was making changes on systems that had been running for 15, 20 or more years. A section would freeze. I would get the plant to give me the time to find the cause. The cause would a problem with the program/code. It just took the exact wrong things to happen to make happen.
2 things I learned programming. No code is bullet proof and if it can happen eventually it will.
With all that being said said I could be wrong on all 3 accounts.
Last edited:
I'll be surprised if their is a smocking gun that proves what happened beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Boeing (all aircraft makers actually) go way above and beyond to isolate systems so one failure doesn't affect anything else when it comes to engines (and flight controls). Engines being important in the grand scheme of things an' all that.
Each shutoff switch will be fed from a separate elec buss. That will feed separate (isolated) controllers, that will in turn feed separate shutoff valves. Each side will be completely isolated from each other. Not saying it couldn't happen, but a failure of one affecting the other would be a million(s) to one event.... highly highly unlikely, bordering on impossible.
Someone turned the fuel valves off. Who or "why" is something we'll prolly never know for sure.
Last edited:
<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?height=314&href=https://www.facebook.com/EAA/videos/581938372761321/&show_text=false&width=560&t=0" width="560" height="314" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="true" allow="autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowFullScreen="true"></iframe>
https://www.facebook.com/reel/581938372761321
https://www.facebook.com/reel/581938372761321
Last edited:
You can only smile or adopt a silly grin when you see that story....
Where?
Info's a bit scarce but probably a rural property "somewhere near Dixon. They flew it out of where he built it and got it to an airport. Apparently flying characteristics are a bit "interesting" But what would you expect from a 1/3 scale plane built from upscaled 1/9 scale RC model plans.
Slightly related titdbit I once had a control line airplane with an engine that had been in a flying CONTROL LINE scale B52, you might guess how that engine became available.
You are right he was from Dixon.
I had never heard anything about him or his plane.
I had never heard anything about him or his plane.
It's kept at the local airport. That's about 3 miles from my house.
On the same note, homebuilt stuff:
Interesting. At this time, mechanical malfunction of the engine fuel/ignition cutoff switches is not ruled out. There was an Airworthiness Directive associated with these switches as installed on the 737.
This is my preferred channel regarding aircraft incidents.
Last edited:
