Just out of curiosity - Airplane Guys

You wouldn’t say that if your legs require a 36 inch inseam. Flying commercial is nothing but pure torture. If I could drive intercontinental, I would!

I’m not even that tall and I hate it. They cram you in like sardines, and I always get some big guy next to me that can’t fit into those child sized seats and he winds up hanging over into my space. The absolute worst though was a flight where we got stuck in seats right next to the emergency exit in the middle of the plane. There’s one row of seats that faces the back of the plane and that’s where we got stuck. We were fighting for somewhere to put our feet , with the people facing us from across the exit. And the whole flight were knee to knee with strangers staring at us. It sucked!
 
I’m not even that tall and I hate it. They cram you in like sardines, and I always get some big guy next to me that can’t fit into those child sized seats and he winds up hanging over into my space. The absolute worst though was a flight where we got stuck in seats right next to the emergency exit in the middle of the plane. There’s one row of seats that faces the back of the plane and that’s where we got stuck. We were fighting for somewhere to put our feet , with the people facing us from across the exit. And the whole flight were knee to knee with strangers staring at us. It sucked!

And right there is the #2 reason I'll never fly again. I've been more comfortable on a freakin' Greyhound!

It was bad enough being treated like cargo on MAC (Military Airlift Command) flights, but paying good money to be treated like that on a commercial flight is a non-starter.

Last flight I actually enjoyed was a JAL flight from San Francisco to Tokyo. I'd snuck home via Space Available from the Philippines while enroute to a new duty station in Japan and could NOT find a Space A seat back to Japan after 3 or 4 days of bouncing back and forth between Travis and SeaTac looking. Finally had to pony up for a commercial flight to avoid being late reporting in.

The 747 was basically empty, I had a whole row of seats in the center section to flop around in and the stews had nothing better to do than wait on me. Might as well have been in First Class.

That would've been in 1972.
 
And right there is the #2 reason I'll never fly again. I've been more comfortable on a freakin' Greyhound!

It was bad enough being treated like cargo on MAC (Military Airlift Command) flights, but paying good money to be treated like that on a commercial flight is a non-starter.

Last flight I actually enjoyed was a JAL flight from San Francisco to Tokyo. I'd snuck home via Space Available from the Philippines while enroute to a new duty station in Japan and could NOT find a Space A seat back to Japan after 3 or 4 days of bouncing back and forth between Travis and SeaTac looking. Finally had to pony up for a commercial flight to avoid being late reporting in.

The 747 was basically empty, I had a whole row of seats in the center section to flop around in and the stews had nothing better to do than wait on me. Might as well have been in First Class.

That would've been in 1972.
Same here. Space A stateside, then couldn't catch a hop back to England. Bounced back and forth tween Dover and Charleston a few times. Finally said screw it and bought a ticket to Heathrow. 747 with about 50 people on an overnight. Wound up in-back playing cards with the stews.... they were bored stiff. Didn't have two pennies to rub together when I got there, so I thumbed it from London to Upper Heyford (just outside Oxford). Was about '73...'74. Don't recall as nice a flight since.
 
I've been more comfortable on a freakin' Greyhound!
The Hound is great! I did a trip on them a few short years ago. It was clean and very comfortable. I'm so creepy looking, nobody would sit beside me. They have Wifi on there too!
Was about '73...'74. Don't recall as nice a flight since.
That's when airlines were still good and the Greyhound passengers hadn't taken to the skies. I spent 24 years at a major airline watching customers and customer service deteriorate. I'm not surprised when people lose control of themselves in those aluminum tubes.
 
On this day... 7 June 1912: With Lieutenant Roy Carrington Kirtland flying a Wright Model B at College Park, Maryland, Captain Charles deForest Chandler was the first person to fire a machine gun mounted on an aircraft. The weapon was a prototype designed by Colonel Isaac N. Lewis.

The Lewis Gun was an air-cooled, gas-operated, magazine-fed light machine gun, later produced in calibers .303 British, .30-06 Springfield and 7.92 Mauser by the Birmingham Small Arms Company, Ltd., and the Savage Arms Co. It could fire at a rate of 500–600 rounds per minute. The muzzle velocity was approximately 2,440 feet per second (744 meters per second) and the effective range was 880 yards (805 meters).

Kirtland Air Force Base, Albuquerque, New Mexico, was named in honor Colonel Roy Carrington Kirtland, who had retired in 1938 after 40 years of service. Recalled to active duty in 1941, Colonel Kirtland died at Moffet Field, California, 2 May 1941. He was buried at the Fort Rosecrans National Cemetery, San Diego, California.

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My Grandfather was a Lewis gun operator in WWI, but with his feet firmly planted in the mud. I wish I could ask what his first impressions were of those early planes...
 
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I just checked my last reply and I don't see the delete either
What the hell edit it with a picture
There's a way to do it I just can't think of it off hand
 
07 July 1942, a Mitsubishi A6M Zero crash-landed on Akutan Island in Alaska. The U.S. Navy later recovered and repaired the Zero so that it's handling characteristics could be analyzed. The information gave U.S. fighter pilots a crucial advantage over their Japanese adversaries.

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I believe the delete function is only active on your own threads? :umm:
If I go back to my own avatar area and look at past post by me I can then delete them but if I tried to delete the post from me just above yours I only have the option to edit or report
It just seems like once it's posted you have to go back into your history to delete it:shrug:
 
Recently I have seen variability in when the Delete option will work. There are often posts I add to a thread and then immediately decide it is best to delete to avoid offence. But lately that has not worked well so have resorted to adding a picture or a tame comment..
 
Memphis Belle comes home...
9 June 1943: After completing 25 combat missions over Western Europe from its base at Air Force Station 121 (RAF Bassingbourne, Cambridgeshire, England), Memphis Belle, a U.S. Army Air Forces Boeing B-17F-10-BO Flying Fortress, serial number 41-24485, assigned to the 91st Bombardment Group (Heavy), 324th Bomb Squadron (Heavy), was flown home by Captain Robert K. Morgan and Captain James A. Verinis.

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The crew of the Memphis Belle after their 25th mission: (left to right) Technical Sergeant Harold Loch, Top Turret Gunner/Engineer; Staff Sergeant Cecil Scott, Ball Turret Gunner; Technical Sergeant Robert Hanson, Radio Operator; Captain James Verinis, Co-pilot; Captain Robert Morgan, Aircraft Commander/Pilot; Captain Charles Leighton, Navigator; Staff Sergeant John Quinlan, Tail Gunner; Staff Sergeant Casimer Nastal, Waist Gunner; Captain Vincent Evans, Bombardier; Staff Sergeant Clarence Winchell Waist Gunner. (U.S. Air Force photograph)
The daylight bombing campaign of Nazi-occupied Europe was very dangerous with high losses in both airmen and aircraft. For a bomber crew, 25 combat missions was a complete tour, and they were sent on to other assignments. Memphis Belle was only the second B-17 to survive 25 missions, so it was withdrawn from combat and sent back to the United States for a publicity tour.


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Miss Margaret Polk, 1943.
The B-17’s name was a reference to Captain Morgan’s girlfriend, Miss Margaret Polk, who lived in Memphis, Tennessee. The artwork painted on the airplane’s nose was a “Petty Girl” based on the work of pin-up artist George Petty of Esquire magazine. (Morgan named his next airplane—a B-29 Superfortress—Dauntless Dotty after his wife, Dorothy Morgan. With it, he led the first B-29 bombing mission against Tokyo, Japan, in 1944. It was also decorated with a Petty Girl.)

Memphis Belle and her crew were the subject of a 45-minute documentary, “Memphis Belle: A Story of a Flying Fortress,” directed by William Wyler and released in April 1944. It was filmed in combat aboard Memphis Belle and several other B-17s. The United States Library of Congress named it for preservation as a culturally significant film.

Following the War Bonds tour, Memphis Belle was assigned to MacDill Field, Tampa, Florida, where it was used for combat crew training.

After the war, Memphis Belle was sent to a “boneyard” at Altus, Oklahoma, to be scrapped along with hundreds of other wartime B-17s. A newspaper reporter learned of this and told Memphis’ mayor, Walter Chandler. Chandler purchased it for its scrap value and arranged for it to be put on display in the city of Memphis. For decades it suffered from time, weather and neglect. The Air Force finally took the bomber back and placed it in the permanent collection of the National Museum of the United States Air Force at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, where it has been undergoing a total restoration for the last several years.

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“On July 17, 1946, at 2:55 p.m., the Memphis Belle rolled to a stop in front of the Administration Building at Municipal Airport and ended its final flight. The plane had been stored in Altus, Okla. Mayor Walter Chandler (fifth left in white suit) and some 200 people greeted the Belle and the final flight’s crew (from left) Stuart Griffin, radioman; Lt. James Gowdy, navigator; Capt. Hamp Morrison, co-pilot; Capt. Robert Little, pilot; Sgt. Percy Roberts Jr., engineer; Capt Robert Taylor, co-navigator and Tech Sgt. Charles Crowe, engineer. (Editor’s Note: This crew was the crew that flew the plane from Altus, Okla.; not the wartime flight crew)” (The Commercial Appeal)
The Boeing B-17F Flying Fortress was a four-engine heavy bomber operated by a flight crew of ten. It was 74 feet, 8.90 inches (22.781 meters) long with a wingspan of 103 feet, 9.38 inches (31.633 meters) and an overall height of 19 feet, 1.00 inch (5.187 meters). The wings have 3½° angle of incidence and 4½° dihedral. The leading edge is swept aft 8¾°. The total wing area is 1,426 square feet (132.48 square meters). The horizontal stabilizer has a span of 43 feet (13.106 meters) with 0° incidence and dihedral. Its total area, including elevators, is 331.1 square feet (12.18 square meters).

The B-17F had an approximate empty weight of 36,135 pounds (16,391 kilograms), 40,437 pounds (18,342 kilograms) basic, and the maximum takeoff weight was 65,000 pounds (29,484 kilograms).

The B-17F was powered by four air-cooled, supercharged, 1,823.129-cubic-inch-displacement (29.876 liters) Wright Cyclone G666A (R-1820-65)¹ nine-cylinder radial engines with a compression ratio of 6.70:1. The engines were equipped with remote General Electric turbochargers capable of 24,000 r.p.m. The R-1820-65 was rated at 1,000 horsepower at 2,300 r.p.m. at Sea Level, and 1,200 horsepower at 2,500 r.p.m. for takeoff. The engine could produce 1,380 horsepower at War Emergency Power. 100-octane aviation gasoline was required. The Cyclones turned three-bladed, constant-speed, Hamilton-Standard Hydromatic propellers with a diameter of 11 feet, 7 inches (3.835 meters) though a 0.5625:1 gear reduction. The R-1820-65 engine is 3 feet, 11.59 inches (1.209 meters) long and 4 feet, 7.12 inches (1.400 meters) in diameter. It weighs 1,315 pounds (596 kilograms).

The B-17F had a cruising speed of 200 miles per hour (322 kilometers per hour). The maximum speed was 299 miles per hour (481 kilometers per hour) at 25,000 feet (7,620 meters), though with War Emergency Power, the bomber could reach 325 miles per hour (523 kilometers per hour) at 25,000 feet for short periods. The service ceiling was 37,500 feet (11,430 meters).
With a normal fuel load of 1,725 gallons (6,530 liters) the B-17F had a maximum range of 3,070 miles (4,941 kilometers). Two “Tokyo tanks” could be installed in the bomb bay, increasing capacity by 820 gallons (3,104 liters). Carrying a 6,000 pound (2,722 kilogram) bomb load, the range was 1,300 miles (2,092 kilometers).

The Memphis Belle was armed with 13 Browning AN-M2 .50-caliber machine guns for defense against enemy fighters. Power turrets mounting two guns each were located at the dorsal and ventral positions. Four machine guns were mounted in the nose, 1 in the radio compartment, 2 in the waist and 2 in the tail.

The maximum bomb load of the B-17F was 20,800 pounds (9434.7 kilograms) over very short ranges. Normally, 4,000–6,000 pounds (1,815–2,722 kilograms) of high explosive bombs were carried. The internal bomb bay could be loaded with a maximum of eight 1,600 pound (725.75 kilogram) bombs. Two external bomb racks mounted under the wings between the fuselage and the inboard engines could carry one 4,000 pound (1,814.4 kilogram) bomb, each, though this option was rarely used.

The B-17 Flying Fortress was in production from 1936 to 1945. 12,731 B-17s were built by Boeing, Douglas Aircraft Company and Lockheed-Vega. (The manufacturer codes -BO, -DL and -VE follows the Block Number in each airplane’s type designation.) 3,405 of the total were B-17Fs, with 2,000 built by Boeing, 605 by Douglas and 500 by Lockheed-Vega.

Only three B-17F Flying Fortresses, including Memphis Belle, remain in existence. The completely restored bomber went on public display at the National Museum of the United States Air Force, 17 May 2018.

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Boeing B-17F-10-BO Flying Fortress 41-24485, “Memphis Belle,” photographed 14 March 2018 at the National Museum of the United States Air Force, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio. (U.S. Air Force)
 
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