Kawasaki W800

Hmm. If the valve clearances have opened up a few thou in not that many miles, I think I would be looking very carefully for something that's worn? Good luck with it.
It will have been quite few 000 miles - being as taking the tank off is a task i tend to shy away from on this bike. Piece of piss on the XS taking the tank off.

But I'm slightly puzzled. Not about to take the head off unless there's further evidence of a problemo after Polly is back on the road.
 
It will have been quite few 000 miles - being as taking the tank off is a task i tend to shy away from on this bike. Piece of piss on the XS taking the tank off.

But I'm slightly puzzled. Not about to take the head off unless there's further evidence of a problemo after Polly is back on the road.
I wouldn't take the head off yet. But I would be very interested in the shims especially. And looking critically at rocker arms, rocker arm spindle, ends of valves etc etc.... It's probably something or nothing. But I suspect you're like me and you need to understand why the valve clearance has increased. It's a bit odd ball. Hope it works out just fine.

It's not like for like but for example the Bonneville T100 I had can go sometimes 50k miles with little or no reshimming.
 
...being as taking the tank off is a task i tend to shy away from on this bike. Piece of piss on the XS taking the tank off.
Made me laugh! Imagine my surprise some years ago when working on my first "modern" bike ('06 Triumph Tiger 955i), when the tank had to come off to do really anything i.e. air filter, plugs (yes, small ones, way down in there 😃), aso, and the tank was a massive 6.5 gallon PITA to remove with all the fuel injection $hit, etc. I remember thinking WTF, give me an old bike! On the upside, the Tiger was a really nice bike once you got past the expanding plastic -ethanol tank.

But @Raymond , thanks for showing the guts of your W800...it never occurred to me it was an 8-valve engine. And a question about the valves. In the pics I can see the valves/springs and rockers, but where do you shim it for adjustment with that architecture?
 
But @Raymond , thanks for showing the guts of your W800...it never occurred to me it was an 8-valve engine. And a question about the valves. In the pics I can see the valves/springs and rockers, but where do you shim it for adjustment with that architecture?
Ah, that's one of the strong points of the W800 - somebody has put some thought into maintenance. It uses the common size 7.48mm shims, used on loads of bikes, esp moto-x. The shim sits on top of the valve stem, in a little bucket. The rockers slide along their shafts and have springs to keep them in place. You measure the gap wiv a feeler gauge, then simply slide the rocker sideways along its shaft to uncover the shim, which you lift out with a magnetic probe - magnetic screwdriver would do. They even provide a table in the manual cross-referencing shim size and measure gap to tell you what size new shim you need.

My goodness, Kawasaki know how to charge for parts! £12.78 for one valve shim at Fowlers :yikes:
Yup. I gulped and thought about the hassle of pulling all the shims out, measuring, working out how many are needed and sizes, then shelling out at those prices! So instead will buy a selection of 141 Hot Cam shims - there's 47 thicknesses at 0.05mm increments, 3 per size. Will be about £70, which is 50p per? And Hot Cams have a good reputation, manufactured in Urbandale, Iowa from 4140 cold rolled steel and heat treated. Will end up with loads of unused shims but hey, next time I do the job.

There are of course cheaper options from the Far East . . .
 
Ah, that's one of the strong points of the W800 - somebody has put some thought into maintenance. It uses the common size 7.48mm shims, used on loads of bikes, esp moto-x. The shim sits on top of the valve stem, in a little bucket. The rockers slide along their shafts and have springs to keep them in place. You measure the gap wiv a feeler gauge, then simply slide the rocker sideways along its shaft to uncover the shim, which you lift out with a magnetic probe - magnetic screwdriver would do. They even provide a table in the manual cross-referencing shim size and measure gap to tell you what size new shim you need.


And Hot Cams have a good reputation, manufactured in Urbandale, Iowa from 4140 cold rolled steel and heat treated.
Many thanks @Raymond, that does seem like a nice system! I guess what I thought were the ends of the valve stems in the pics were actually the small diameter shims.

Urbandale IA, West side of Des Moines... heartland of America!
 
Wednesday the shim kit turned up so to summarise yesterday in pictures:

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Last checked the gaps at 14,000 miles and only replaced one shim at that time. Back then, the inlets were just a wee bit wide at ~6 thou so left them alone. That was 25,000 miles ago - surely a testament to my laziness?

This time, replaced seven of the shims and all valves in spec now. The worksheet picture is work in progress and there was more fiddling about after that. Cheap Aldi caliper adequate to check the shim sizes, they come at 0.05 mm intervals - about 2 thou - but the real check of course is in situ with the feeler gauges and as said that's all good.


I wouldn't take the head off yet. But I would be very interested in the shims especially. And looking critically at rocker arms, rocker arm spindle, ends of valves etc etc.... It's probably something or nothing. But I suspect you're like me and you need to understand why the valve clearance has increased. It's a bit odd ball. Hope it works out just fine.

I was surprised that the gaps grow. People and the ai asst seem to think the gaps should come down as the valve seats wear? Had a wee think and it's got to be tips of the rockers wearing over time. I spose the shims might have worn a bit dished but not visible and no obvious way to measure. Nothing to worry about, the magnetic drain plug never has more than a thin layer of gray paste and the cams look perfect to the naked eye. The plugs look very healthy too after 25,000 miles of service but treated Polly to well-deserved new ones.

Rubber is flaking from a couple of the composite washers on top of the cambox so I'm replacing them. An unwelcome £28 from Cradley Heath - that includes the VAT and postage - but I can't really complain about the servicing costs at 39,000 miles.

Had the bike from new and it's been 100% reliable. Done twelve oil and filter changes, and despite laziness noted above with under-the-tank jobs, have pretty much kept on top of routine maintenance. Doesn't get mollycoddled but I generally keep the revs between about 2,500 and 4,500 - north of 5,000 is a rare rush of blood to the head and never been within shouting distance of the red line. There's no need, the 800 has same power as the original W650 but when Big K upped the capacity they fattened the torque curve so it's a real delight to use.

Today, button up and plonk tank back on.

Then go and see Tosh about an MOT - annual inspection.
 
@Raymond good to read. Hopefully many more trouble free miles to enjoy.

It's true, generally speaking all things being equal valve clearances should close as valve seats wear. Unleaded fuel not helping with that of course. Hardened valve seats are designed for it, but they do still suffer some wear. Shims if good quality shouldn't really show any wear for many thousand miles. But sometimes they do. Even cruising along, the valves are still subject to a 4 or 5 thousand rpm engine.

But your valve clearances have widened since last checked. That has to mean some wear somewhere else in the valve train. You're right it might be a bit of wear on either end of the rockers. It might be a bit of wear here and there adding up to a measurable change. Main thing is you have corrected it, checked for obvious issues and looks fine.

Like you, I'd now enjoy the ride. Stay safe.
 
the shim kit turned up so to summarise yesterday in pictures:

Nice job to have done Raymond! That adjustment ought to last you a good long time. I’ve always been interested in valve adjustment by shims, never had the opportunity to do one myself. Kawasaki engineers deserve major props for their ingenious valve train and the way they have simplified shim removal. It still boggles my mind that so many manufacturers designed their system in a way that requires removing the cams to get at the shims. I know for me personally, I veered away from a couple of models of bikes that would’ve required just that. It was more than I wanted to do and for a dealership to do that job for you….well, you know how that would impact your wallet. 😳
IMG_1296.jpeg
Great job done! 👍🏻
 
Nice job to have done Raymond! That adjustment ought to last you a good long time. I’ve always been interested in valve adjustment by shims, never had the opportunity to do one myself. Kawasaki engineers deserve major props for their ingenious valve train and the way they have simplified shim removal. It still boggles my mind that so many manufacturers designed their system in a way that requires removing the cams to get at the shims. I know for me personally, I veered away from a couple of models of bikes that would’ve required just that. It was more than I wanted to do and for a dealership to do that job for you….well, you know how that would impact your wallet. 😳
View attachment 373821
Great job done! 👍🏻
Indeed, the Hinckley Triumph Bonnevilles are like that. Double overhead cam, eight valves, cams have to be pulled out to adjust valve clearances. Luckily, it never needed doing while I owned a 2007 T100.
 
For many years owned and ran a 1975 Kawasaki Z1B, known far and wide as Hiro Hito.Twin OHC and the valves were set with shims in buckets on top of the valves. You could take the cams out to swap shims or there was a tool that held a valve open while you rotated the engine and could remove the shim with tweezers of a magnetic probe. Looking back, the shims were huge, like manhole covers compared with the W800. What a palaver - measure all the gaps, take out the shims one at a time, thickness was inscribed on the underside, note everything down, do some arithmetic and with any luck you could get away with buying just two or three shims, then repeat the turn engine with valve held open procedure to swap them about.

The W800 system is a lot easier - just slide the rocker sideways to lift the shim out with a magnet and swap over.
 
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For many years owned and ran a 1975 Kawasaki Z1B, known far and wide as Hiro Hito.Twin OHC and the valves were set with shims in buckets on top of the valves. You could take the cams out to swap shims or there was a tool that held a valve open while you rotated the engine and could remove the shim with tweezers of a magnetic probe. Looking back, the shims were huge, like manhole covers compared with the W800. What a palaver - measure all the gaps, take out the shims on at a time, thickness was inscribed on the underside, note everything down, do some arithmetic and with any luck you could get away with buying just two or three shims, then repeat the turn engine with valve held open procedure to swap them about.
Yes, exactly as it was on the first Z1's, KZ's et al. A little bit tedious and time-consuming, but props to big K for the first mass market 4cyl DOHC designs...and no camshaft removal.
 
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