Kickstarter locked

[nikiforova]

So I finally got around to replacing the pushrod seal and the pushrod with a 1 piece as well as the clutch advance assembly. Well, my kickstart is locked up. Cant get it to move, its acting as though the bike is in gear. so far this is what I have tried to troubleshoot
1. Put the old pushrod back in
2. manually turned the engine over to make sure the pistons still move
3. pull the right side cover to check the tang on the kickstarter.
- I went ahead and reinstalled the kick starter over the course of 2 and a half hours using the zip tie method.
No avail. Kick starter will not budge. I was really hoping that is was just the springs and kickstart mechanism, but it doesnt seem to be that simple. I'm worried that this is pointing towards the starter gear being seized up. Any thoughts?

 

[jpdevol]

Hey, missed this yesterday....
I can't think of anything that should have caused that in inserting a new pushrod and seal, but I reckon we're beyond that now. First, ensure the bike is, in fact, in neutral and the countershat will spin separate from the crank. I suspect there's been a mis-assembly of the clutch or kickstart.

 

[nikiforova]

Hey, missed this yesterday....
I can't think of anything that should have caused that in inserting a new pushrod and seal, but I reckon we're beyond that now. First, ensure the bike is, in fact, in neutral and the countershat will spin separate from the crank. I suspect there's been a mis-assembly of the clutch or kickstart.

The bike is in neutral. Last thing that I checked last night was putting the bike on the jack in gear and seeing if the rear wheel would spin freely... it would not. Is the countershaft the gear that the kickstart engages to turn over the engine?

 

[jpdevol]

No, it engages the clutch that sits on the mainshaft. The countershaft (front sprocket) in N should spin independent to eliminate that part of the drivetrain

Also, need to know year to get correct clutch assy.

 

[nikiforova]

No, it engages the clutch that sits on the mainshaft. The countershaft (front sprocket) in N should spin independent to eliminate that part of the drivetrain

Also, need to know year to get correct clutch assy.

Its an 83sk. Ill check to make sure the front sprocket spins freely now and will report back.

 

[jpdevol]

This is how I got through High School; copying off smart kids (It's easier):

The second thicker and wider washer you've found may be for behind the clutch. There should be another thin washer back there with it. Here's a labeled drawing I made up .....

For rub marks, you would check the back of the main hub, between the inner and outer hub, and the top of the pressure plate & inside surface of the cover. Here's what I found inside my cover upon disassembly. Apparently, someone in the past assembled things wrong or had too many washers installed .....

And yet one more diagram, a color coded one from that German manual, which I labeled in English .....

 

[jpdevol]

For the rest of the clutch assy., attached diagram. The only thing you changed - other than worm assy. - is replacing #'s 25, 26 and one of two #24 with a "long" aftermarket rod??

 

[nikiforova]

For the rest of the clutch assy., attached diagram. The only thing you changed - other than worm assy. - is replacing #'s 25, 26 and one of two #24 with a "long" aftermarket rod??
View attachment 227669

Yep thats correct. I just removed the two piece pushrod and one of the ball bearings and replaced it with a one piece pushrod as well as the bushing and oil seal and the release assembly. Just confirmed that the front sprocket spins freely in neutral... is this the same as independently?

 

[jpdevol]

Yep, all good there. Unless others have another idea, we'll have to go into the R. cover. If you're confident of the clutch assy., we can skip for now and just mess with the kickstart. Put your thumb on it so it stays in crankcase and take a pic please.

 

[nikiforova]

Yep, all good there. Unless others have another idea, we'll have to go into the R. cover. If you're confident of the clutch assy., we can skip for now and just mess with the kickstart. Put your thumb on it so it stays in crankcase and take a pic please.

Definitely not confident with the kickstart. Struggled with it for a while yesterday trying to fix it and figured I had got it, case went on flush with no problem, but still locked

Video

 

[jpdevol]

It's been a while, and I can't tell from that pic. If you put the kick arm on the shaft and rotate it counterclockwise, does the gear slide in and engage the idler visible to the right inside case and does the shaft spring back to rest position when released?

 

[nikiforova]

It's been a while, and I can't tell from that pic. If you put the kick arm on the shaft and rotate it counterclockwise, does the gear slide in and engage the idler visible to the right inside case and does the shaft spring back to rest position when released?

yes it does engage and spring back out. The idler will not turn at all though

 

[jpdevol]

Let's call that good for now. Before moving on to the clutch, I'm wondering about the bushing install in the opposite end of the mainshaft. Any difficulty or unusual things go on there?

 

[nikiforova]

Let's call that good for now. Before moving on to the clutch, I'm wondering about the bushing install in the opposite end of the mainshaft. Any difficulty or unusual things go on there?

Nothing too unusual. I had trouble finding the split in the bushing so I got under it on one side and bent it upwards until I could grip it with some needle nose pliers and popped it out. Wasn’t difficult to get the new one in either.

 

[5twins]

Your pic of the kicker shaft doesn't show the lower area where the small end of the drag clip fits into the case. If that's floating free, maybe it could bind things up .....

For kick shaft install, I just follow the instructions given in the factory shop manual. It's easy and there's no need for zip ties and fighting springs. Details are here in post #8 .....

https://www.xs650.com/threads/how-the-hell-does-this-kicker-shaft-work.25602/

 

[jpdevol]

So the mainshaft didn't get moved into a bind from the bushing install.

Disassemble the clutch and lay the pieces out in a row as they come apart and compare to 5twins pics. The outer basket must not bind to anything behind it.

Cool, 5twins is here and I've got work to do

 

[nikiforova]

Your pic of the kicker shaft doesn't show the lower area where the small end of the drag clip fits into the case. If that's floating free, maybe it could bind things up .....

View attachment 227676

For kick shaft install, I just follow the instructions given in the factory shop manual. It's easy and there's no need for zip ties and fighting springs. Details are here in post #8 .....

https://www.xs650.com/threads/how-the-hell-does-this-kicker-shaft-work.25602/

The lower drag clip is in its slot, however I went back and reinstalled it using your method. I’m back at the same place, but it was way easier than fighting the spring!

 

[nikiforova]

So the mainshaft didn't get moved into a bind from the bushing install.

Disassemble the clutch and lay the pieces out in a row as they come apart and compare to 5twins pics. The outer basket must not bind to anything behind it.

Cool, 5twins is here and I've got work to do

what could cause the main shaft to go into a bind during that install?

 

[jpdevol]

It would be unusual, but if, in installing the bushing, the mainshaft got driven to the right, I'm guessing it could have caused it to bind. Perhaps that will be discovered when you disassemble the clutch; once the pressure plate is removed, the clutch center (fixed to mainshaft) should be free to rotate

 

[nikiforova]

I finally got around to working on the bike. Dont remember exactly what I did beyond oil up each individual clutch plate and reassemble, but the kickstart is now turning the engine over; however, I am getting nasty kick back and can not get the bike going. sometimes ill get a spark, but it wont pick up and start running. Other times it kicks back with the force of 1000 hamsters into my knee and blows some smoke out of my carbs. It definitely feels a bit harder to kick it and I am not able to kick it as fast as before.

I did notice when I switched to the gonzo that it began kicking back which wasnt happening with my previous TCI. It wasnt super common, would usually start up fine after 2 kicks with mayybe one kick back every few days. Now all it wants to do is kick me