Legalities Of Keeping VIN Stickers

[mrtwowheel]

My situation, I have title in hand, 44 year old lien from a closed bank on the title, I see no problems here.

OK, those crusty old VIN/date of manufacture stickers...….I always thought that those were unnecessary and could be discarded. My plan was to take some good pictures of the sticker and then try to remove it without breaking it up too much. I was just going to file it away for future reference. The stamped VIN numbers are in great shape, I thought that was all that I really needed since the bike will not be in any way considered a "restoration".

COMMENTS? OPINIONS? FREE LEGAL ADVICE?

Scott

 

[mrtwowheel]

So, how about you guys in the various states and countries that require government inspections? Any real good reason to keep those ugly crusty stickers?

 

[MaxPete]

So, how about you guys in the various states and countries that require government inspections? Any real good reason to keep those ugly crusty stickers?

Here in Ontario, Canada, every vehicle must have a safety inspection whenever the ownership is changed - UNLESS - you transfer the vehicle as “Unfit”. That’s fine - BUT - you cannot then get insurance or a licence plate for it and so it cannot be driven on the road.

To transfer a vehicle as “Fit” you must have that safety inspection and they will check the VIN plate and ensure that it matches the ownership documents. I know that my 1976 XS650C had a very odd VIN that was only numerical (no code letters) and that caused some wrinkled brows at the DMV office for a few minutes.

I’m not a legal expert, but I would be very reluctant to mess with a VIN sticker. JMHO....

 

[mrtwowheel]

Comparing those stickers and stamped VIN numbers on a bike to what is on other vehicles...….On a car the VIN is usually riveted to the dash and visible through the windshield, the stickers are usually on the door jam. I've never seen a cop check the VIN by looking at the sticker on a car. I've never seen a recycler verify the VIN by looking at the sticker either.

Scott

 

[mrtwowheel]

Multi-post problem here.

Should I even call these stickers "VIN stickers"? Or, are they just "extra information stickers"?

Scott

 

[MaxPete]

 

[MrBultaco]

In Colorado, you only need a stamped vin# on a motorcycle frame to title it. Those pesky stickers only tell the owner
the date of manufacture and make. Mind you, this is Colorado where it's pretty easy to make a dirt bike street legal. ie: I used a dental mirror and a squeeze horn for mine. LOL

 

[650Skull]

Up to and including 76 we don't have to have a Vin plate on a frame for registration purposes. The Stamped Vin on the frame is enough. 77 and later the Vin plate has to be on the frame or it can't be registered.............To register a bike that hasn'r been registered for a number of years, (12 months after the registration has expired), the bike has to have an engineers inspection to for it to be registered and that requires an additional plate riveted to the frame stating the inspection..........By the way our Vin plates are just that, a plate riveted to the neck.

I think you guys would have trouble registering the later model XS Specials without the vin sticker. The later models have a 17 digit Vin no on the sticker and this is different to the frame Vin no stamped on the frame..................I know my 83 Canadian SK has the 17 digit Vin no on the sticker and the Vin plate is a sticker, the frame no Vin stamp has only the 9 digit Vin stamped on the frame

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Kinda ditto with 650skull there. Up to the mid-later '70s, we pretty much regarded those VIN stickers like the mattress warning labels. Like an importers MSO. Once the title is issued, just the stamped numbers were important.

A forum search on "VIN stickers" found this site, which has some info.

http://www.bdesigns.ca/Main_Decal.htm

On the later bikes, where the frame s/n is smaller than the VIN (more characters), I can see some difficulties, particularly when dealing with certain DMV employees...

 

[XSLeo]

In New York, as I understand it older bikes can use just the frame number, at some point they started using the sticker number.
On my 81 the title and registration list just the frame number. On the 83 the title and registration use the number off the sticker.
I might assume that by those the change occurred in 82, I won't depend on that though.
On all my bikes that have the sticker, the frame number is part of the sticker number.
Leo

 

[mrtwowheel]

Thanks for all of this input guys. This was well worth the talk. For me, it's bye bye sticker on my '74. I'll take some pictures and measurements of it before I scrape it off, make a few prints of the pictures and file them with my titles. I've never sold an entire bike before, mostly I'm holding them for life, so that will never be a problem for me.

Scott

 

[Boog]

Now then, I can read the stamp just fine on my '81 project but can't read the sticker worth a dang. I now understand that the frame number may be different than the sticker, is that right?

 

[650Skull]

Kinda right, The frame no will be in the sticker no but it is hidden among a bunch more letters and no's.

Here is an example of 2 Canadian 17 digit vins,
JYA5V5006EA040164........JYA5V5009EA040482. The vin stamped on the frame neck will be 5V5 040164 and 5V5 040482.

Your bike being an 81 US model will have either 4N9, (H, Special II), or 4M4, (SH), instead of 5V5 and the last 6 no's are the vin no's ..........I think the JYA is a constant, not 100% sure and the middle no's/letters could be whatever depending on the country

 

[Boog]

Yep, mine is the 4M4. I got the bike with no title and did a title search to begin getting it in my name. I just used the stamped number and it came back as 'No Records Found". I wonder if I need to reapply once I figure out the remaining letter and numbers. Anyone have any idea how to do that?

 

[TheScubaSteve]

The sticker VIN and stamped VIN on my 81 differ as 650Skull describes. For inspection and tags, Maryland's MVA only cared that the shop that did the inspection record a VIN that matched the title. As long as what the inspector writes down matches your title, I would assume VA works the same way.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Here's some VIN decoder trivia:

https://itstillruns.com/read-yamaha-motorcycle-vin-number-4896367.html

https://www.doityourself.com/stry/how-to-decode-motorcycle-engine-serial-numbers

https://www.cyclepedia.com/motorcycle-vin-decoder/

https://vpic.nhtsa.dot.gov/decoder/

 

[Max Midnight]

The attached file also contains useful data on VIN numbers

 

[Boog]

Thanks 2M and Max. I have learned this so far: "VIN, or Vehicle Identification Numbers, were standardized in 1981 by the National Highway Transportation and Safety Administration (NHTSA). By law they are 17 characters long, consisting of both numbers and letters. Each character or sequence of characters has specific meaning".
Therefore, I will have to do another VIN search once I find the missing digits on mine. The nine numbers on the tube let me know it is an XS650SH and that it is a 1981, but that is it.
Next I learned that the correct paint code for my bike is 006G for the NYB (New Yamaha Black). I plan to use the OEM color when the time comes.
I have requested from my county police any information they can give me. The license plate is in good order from 2001 and the county registration number is clearly visible as well. Hopefully they will give me the VIN on file from these and I can start over the title search and my mandatory 121 days of waiting.
Thanks for the extra knowledge guys; knowing is half the battle...

 

[Boog]

I called the Yamaha number in one of those links "If your bike is vintage, call Yamaha at (800) 962-7926 to see how long your VIN should be" and got 16 of the 17 digits now... Their research department is trying to verify the missing digit.
Also, my county police will come to the house and verify the VIN, I take it they have to see it in person to run the tag through the system. More to follow...

 

[Boog]

Well crap, the police officer cannot find the plate number in the DMV's database it is so old. It was discarded long ago it seems. The county sticker data base likewise has been lost to time.
Doing a Google search leads me to think the missing digit is a 3. I can a few hundred Yamaha XS650 VINs that use a 3 in that spot.
Like me, the officer cant see the full VIN on the OEM sticker. At least using a 3, he says that is not reported as stolen, so I got that going for me, I think....