MACHINISTS: Recently purchased a lathe, need help tooling and outfitting it.

vtuck2

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Hey guys,

This is sort of an old thread so I hope it's ok to respond to it.

My wife and I have slowly put together a small machine shop for our own use which, we hope, will morph into something that will make a few bucks.

As to your inquiry about tool bits and holders: Good advice to use high speed steel rather than carbide and to ditch the lantern tool post for a quick change design. On an Aloris or Aloris type (read "Chinese") tool post you can easily set the tool height with a little thumb screw that raises or lowers the tool bit to the center line of the lathe -- assuming that you have the right size tool post for your size lathe. We have a 13" Colchester lathe that is just a tad big for the Size A Aloris tool post. The bit won't adjust quite high enough to reach the center line. However, the fix is easy enough. Just add shims between the bottom of the tool post and the top of the compound.

The main advantages of carbide tools are a) speed; and b) convenience. Small lathes typically won't don't have enough speed or power to reap the benefit of carbide tools. And, unless you're a production shop, for anybody whose time is not necessarily money - the advantage clearly tips to high speed steel. Also, carbide won't take a light skimming cut nearly as well as tool steel. So, if you're trying to split a hair, steel's yur uncle.

On the down side, you have to grind steel tool bits. With carbide inserts you simply index the insert (spin it around) to a new sharp point. I don't have much experience with carbide inserts but they are typically triangular shaped, and, if I'm not mistaken, you can also flip 'em upside down. So, I believe this gives you six sharp tips per carbide insert.

On the other hand, I recently learned of a company that sells "inserts" for use on indexable bits - but they're made of high speed steel! I don't remember their name but I bookmarked 'em and can fish it out if anybody's interested. They certainly got MY attention although I haven't bought from 'em yet. Because, in a small shop environment, they conveniently give you quick access to 6 fresh points. Plus THEY CAN BE HONED ON A STONE. Conversely, the only thing hard enough to sharpen carbide is a diamond wheel. Diamond wheels are expensive and cannot be used for anything else. If you grind steel on a diamond wheel the carbon in the diamond quickly migrates to the steel, hardening it, while simultaneously ruining a very expensive wheel. Hence, the wheel - and the grinder it's on - cannot be used for any other purpose.

As to the Chinese clones of Aloris type tool posts, they're not nearly as good as the genuine article. But they are orders of magnitude cheaper. And for my money, they are nevertheless "good enuff". We actually own some Aloris tool posts and holders and I can attest they are far better made. But their price new is withering. So, again, for my buck, the Chinese clones are the way to go if buying new - and I would only consider buying the 'murcan quick change tool posts & holders if: a) they came bundled with a lathe; and/or b) I found a deal on a used one on ebay or C/L.

As to buying Chinese tooling, there is a site called CDCO-tools that sells inexpensive (or should I say "cheap") Chinese tooling and accessories. I have not found better pricing than theirs. Their prices are much much lower than Enco and they ship faster than blue blazes.

I suppose I should disclaim that I'm not shilling for CDCO, have no vested financial stake in them, yada yada... I'm just trying to help you tool up cheaply.

I look forward to hearing more about your adventure in machining.

Regards,

Vern
 
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vtuck2

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Oh yeah, eBay is chock full of machinist stuff. Lotta machines being parted out and old departed machinist's basements being cleared out.

I have a lot of old publications from the ' 30s-'60s, most of the technical data is probably outdated or already on the 'net. But, here's some notes that dear old dad typed-out back then, might be usable to the home shop.

1- Cutting bit angles, side cut, face cut, back rake, speeds, ...etc. These are old, but still work. Our grandfathers of industry spent a lot of time developing these, but they were developed largely to maximize productivity, bit life, and surface finish, so you don't necessarily have to adhere to them like gospel, but your cuts will appreciate it. The important thing here is noting that the lantern rockerbox provides the ability to easily set your back (or top) rake angles, but with QCTP and 4-way you must grind-in those angles, or use inserts.

2- RPM versus Surface-Feet-per-Minute

3- Old tapers, probably better charts out there.

Actually, for cutting with HSS bits, I believe your data will be just as current today as it ever was. It's carbide tooling that has changed the game with speeds and feeds.

Vern
 

TwoManyXS1Bs

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Actually, for cutting with HSS bits, I believe your data will be just as current today as it ever was. It's carbide tooling that has changed the game with speeds and feeds.

Vern

Thanx, Vern. In this day-and-age of rapidly changing technology, I find it comforting that some things aren't changed, much.

Here's a handy chart for bit selection versus 'machinability':
 

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jeremy Gaal

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Got the Phase II wedge setup in with five tool holders.

:) - 201 - Standard 1/2" toolholder. Holds anything from about 1/16th up to 1/2 inch. Turning and facing.

:) - 202 - Same as 201 PLUS can also hold round tools up to 1/2 inch. It has a notched lower jaw for securing round tools. Turning and facing. If you look at the pictures you can see a small groove cut into the bottom surface of the toolholder's notch. That groove is for locating round tools and securing them.

:) - 204 - Boring bar holder. Holds up to 1 inch diameter boring bars.

:) - 207 - Parting blade holder. This is a very cool one. It's made to hold a standard parting blade and works very well in doing so. The coolest thing is I saw this You Tube video of this guy that made parting tools out of carbide tipped saw blades. Y'know, like that ones made for 7 inch worm drive saws (such as the Skill 77). Those saw blades are at any Home Depot/Lowes/Ace out there and there has to be at least a dozen useable parting blades per saw blade. He chucked up the ground-to-fit parting blade in this exact Phase II holder and displayed it's prowess. Worked great! Very cool idea.

:) - 210 - Knurling holder. It does part knurling as well as provides a secondary tool holder for the 12 0'clock position on the tool post. I am not exactly sure how you'd use that holder in that location, but I suppose it will come to me eventually. As far as the knurler, I suppose it's as good as any other imported knurler. I actually prefer to use the scissors type knurling tool since they do not put any lateral force on the part when knurling. But this one is pretty solid, and it comes with the set so .... yea.

:) - And of course the QC tool post itself is also included in this kit. This is such a great system. The toolholders can be removed and replaced hundreds of times while holding up to .001" accuracy with each placement of the toolholder on to the toolpost. Once you set the tool's height using the thumbwheel and locking jam nut on top of each holder the cutting tool will always land on center each time the toolholder is placed into the toolpost. Wash, rinse, repeat. As many times as you wish and the tool will always lock down within .001" of where you originally centered it!

In the pics you can see the 201 holder with a piece of 1/2 inch HSS ("high speed steel") tool steel mounted in it. I included that pic to show how well these toolholders fit up to toolsteel, as well as demonstrate how these toolholders sortof work. Everything fits so friggin great, too!

In the picture of the two bolts, those are the center bolts from their toolposts. The smaller one is from the lathe's stock four way toolpost that it came equipped with. The large bolt/nut is the one for the Phase II. Gigantic difference there. The Phase II centerbolt is about 5/8" all the way through it's entire length. I don't think it takes a degree in engineering to figure out which one of these centerbolts will reduce chatter.

I'll be going over it's ups and downs soon. I've found a few ways to improve it's mechanical connection with the compound rest which will reduce chatter and improve finish. I've also figured out a way to make the locking handle much more efficient and far less obstructive (it tends to hit the tailstock if the toolpost is anywhere near it). I'll go over that as well :).

All in all I'm ~so far~ pretty happy with the entire rig. I'll be going over how I mounted the Phase II toolpost to my particular lathe's compound rest. You sortof have to come up with whatever works for your own lathe to fit the QC setup to your machine. I'll show you how I got it done on mine soon.
Hi Jeeter I just bought the same lathe and same tool post, Just wondering how you went about it to use both tool posts. I would prefer to use my quick change but do not have a lot of experience modifying something like this to make it work. Any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated
 

TwoManyXS1Bs

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Welcome to the forum, jeremy Gaal. Unfortunately, jeeter hasn't been on here for 2 years. Wrestling health issues, we lost track of him. I have no idea what he did with his toolpost setup...
 
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