Miss November XS2 tribute

Break it into parts.

Polly has been relogated to b able to ride in the winter on those rare good days.

The RE is new and should b reliable so there are no worries on a long trip. It does everything that is required, fast enough, comfortable enough. All round good bike that has great visual appeal.

Miss September. Has that old school charm, good looks and a sound that can't be beat, built to your personal taste. Does the job with glee, starts.

Now choose😂
All true. But you are overlooking the RE Bullet - an utterly delightful, old-fashioned mechanical contrivance for reliving 1940s style motorcycling.

My sensible view is that two motorbikes is ideal, so you have one to ride when the other is being worked on. But I'm not always sensible.
 
I left the bullet out due to the difference between the other 3. Figured it is so small it would hide under the sacks at the bottom of the shed and once the other bikes had been sold it would convince you to keep it for the sedate Sunday coffee and paper run and woo the crowds.

All tongue in cheek..........shit your bikes:devil:
 
Have mentioned the problem with the engine shutting down, seems to be intermittent and electrical in nature. Has happened about a dozen times.

Boyer-Bransden ignition has a feature - if the voltage drops too low, it shuts down. I believe what is happening is that for some reason, a voltage glitch occurs, B-B shuts down. To reset the B-B, switch off and on. Bike then re-starts, usually first kick.

Further confirmation that it's the B-B shutting down - I have learned that instead of coasting to a halt, all I need to do is turn the ignition key Off-On and the engine instantly leaps back into life.

Today, pulled Missy out of the garage, started up, again second kick, warmed up for a while, went for a short run, about four miles. That's because I can't trust it to keep going. First time out on the road since 28th January. Riding back through the village, coasting on a small throttle opening, felt the engine shut down. Key Off-On, engine instantly burst back into life.

My feeling is that the problem is getting more frequent. I don't know what is making the B-B shut down - it could be as simple as a bad connection. Went over the ignition system looking for bad connections last year and thought at one time I had found and fixed the problem.

Apparently not.
 
Have mentioned the problem with the engine shutting down, seems to be intermittent and electrical in nature. Has happened about a dozen times.

Boyer-Bransden ignition has a feature - if the voltage drops too low, it shuts down. I believe what is happening is that for some reason, a voltage glitch occurs, B-B shuts down. To reset the B-B, switch off and on. Bike then re-starts, usually first kick.

Further confirmation that it's the B-B shutting down - I have learned that instead of coasting to a halt, all I need to do is turn the ignition key Off-On and the engine instantly leaps back into life.

Today, pulled Missy out of the garage, started up, again second kick, warmed up for a while, went for a short run, about four miles. That's because I can't trust it to keep going. First time out on the road since 28th January. Riding back through the village, coasting on a small throttle opening, felt the engine shut down. Key Off-On, engine instantly burst back into life.

My feeling is that the problem is getting more frequent. I don't know what is making the B-B shut down - it could be as simple as a bad connection. Went over the ignition system looking for bad connections last year and thought at one time I had found and fixed the problem.

Apparently not.
I think Yamahas of this vintage have a propensity to go low voltage to the coils. My SK is kick only when cold. My XS1100 is often reluctant to start when cold. One solution is running full battery voltage to the coils with a relay. There could be corrosion anywhere in wiring that old. I replaced almost a foot of wire on either side of the stator connector on my XS11. The corrosion was running deep in the wires. I cut until I saw no more green. I assume your environment is damp.
 
coasting on a small throttle opening, felt the engine shut down. Key Off-On, engine instantly burst back into life.
I'd say that's about as good a confirmation as you'll ever see. I assume your Boyer warrantee has expired?
 
I'd say that's about as good a confirmation as you'll ever see. I assume your Boyer warrantee has expired?

Bike came into my hands with the B-B fitted so no idea about warranty. But I'm not suggesting a fault with the unit - it's supposed to shut down if it detects low voltage, so I need to discover why that is happening.
 
Bike came into my hands with the B-B fitted so no idea about warranty. But I'm not suggesting a fault with the unit - it's supposed to shut down if it detects low voltage, so I need to discover why that is happening.
I suggested earlier you temp mount a voltmeter connected direct to the suspected unit... the BB in this case.
I'll suggest it again. Hook it to the power in lead at the BB. Soon as the engine quits, see what it reads.

It could be low voltage tripping the BB... It could also just be the unit itself... tripping at a higher voltage than it's supposed to. The meter will tell you which it is.
 
Thanks, Jim, reckon I'll do that.

PICT0980.JPG

Little cheapo voltmeter arrived yesterday, so this morning fitted it. Tank off, went to the feed from Kill switch to Boyer iggy, coil and solenoid. Made a little 4-way harness with new bullets, adding the voltmeter. So it should be getting same as BB. Earthed to a fork clamp - the yokes have an earth to frame. Temporary mount with cable ties - the lazy way but aren't they handy.

Picture makes the digits look very pale but I think the meter might confuse the camera with a high-speed flicker. Mrs' son tried with his phone and the image didn't show any reading on the meter.

At tick-over, sits showing 12.4-ish, went for a short test run, about four miles - as the engine speed gets up past 2½ to 3 K it shows 13.5. Went as high as 13.7 once. Seems to respond quite slowly, which might be a good thing? Except, might not be ideal for showing a brief fluctuation.

Not too sure how accurate the readings are but the main thing is to see how the voltage varies and whether it falls away significantly when the engine shuts down. Missy exhibited no naughtiness of that sort on the short run.

One might believe that making a new harness section has eliminated a dodgy connection which was causing the intermittent fault. Wishful thinking.

It was a pleasure to go for a ride with Miss November again. Ahem.
 
I think Yamahas of this vintage have a propensity to go low voltage to the coils. My SK is kick only when cold. My XS1100 is often reluctant to start when cold. One solution is running full battery voltage to the coils with a relay. There could be corrosion anywhere in wiring that old. I replaced almost a foot of wire on either side of the stator connector on my XS11. The corrosion was running deep in the wires. I cut until I saw no more green. I assume your environment is damp.

In NZ I would wheel my SK out into the sun for 1/2 an hour at least, before I would try to start it when riding on a nice winters day.
 
Today, third little test run with the voltmeter. It flashes if voltage is low - sitting at 4-way temporary road lights, reading fell to 11.1, which is when I noticed the flashing.

But also got to thinking, why is output falling to such a low number? What level is the charging system supposed to maintain? Missy has a combined rec/reg.

There was no problem of the iggy shutting down, but I blipped the throttle to put the reading a bit higher. Would like to find out what level of voltage would worry the Boyer.
 
Well, it shouldn't be flashing a 11.1v Raymond. Should read solid all the way down to under 6v or so. Could be the meter's faulty... not that Chinese stuff is ever faulty right out of the box mind you.... :rolleyes:
Or whatever's causing the flash might be a lead on what's ailing Missy... even if she didn't shut off. :shrug:
 
I've seen some similar with digital volt meters the sampling rate is low the XS charge at low speed is more of a pulsing AC than DC
How good is the battery? Might recheck major wires and connections specially grounds tween engine/frame/ battery.
Madness got really freaky with poor running, missing and a berserk voltmeter, during the iron butt run, turned out a worn brush and a rotor that had a slight wobble was creating havoc at certain RPMs, But it got me home!
 
Well, it shouldn't be flashing a 11.1v Raymond. Should read solid all the way down to under 6v or so. Could be the meter's faulty... not that Chinese stuff is ever faulty right out of the box mind you.... :rolleyes:
Or whatever's causing the flash might be a lead on what's ailing Missy... even if she didn't shut off. :shrug:
I had already come to the conclusion the meter flashes at low voltage. It's a very cheap little thing, wire leads are thinner than a pubic hair, came with no instructions or any of that nonsense, but pretends to be a smart meter. Took a look at the sellers website and among a long list of special features - 'Good Lightness', 'Easy to Wear' - we find 'High and low voltage flashing reminders'. And below 8.0 or above 16.0 it should flash LLL or HHH.

Empirically, I find that it flashes below about 11.5. The response is delayed, so it must sample over a period - stop and let the engine idle and display will continue to show 12.8 for several seconds then jump to 10.8 flashing. Highest reading I saw today 13.5 - we were travelling at a fair lick.

With a willing helper, son of usual willing helper, complied a list comparing readings from a 'trusted' multimeter reading over the battery terminals to the wee display on the handlebar:

Engine off, ignition off, multimeter 12.52, display off (obviously)

Engine off, ignition on, multimeter 12.03, display 11.4 flashing

Engine at fast idle, multimeter 14.76, display 12.5 steady

Engine at slow idle, multimeter 12.8, display 9.8 flashing

Conclusions? Hmm. If the meter is accurate - 'Measurement accuracy: ±(0.2%)' according to that list of features - then there is some loss of voltage through the ignition and Kill switches. But because of the slow response, I can't be sure how far the voltage drops when I back off.

And if my understanding is correct, the alternator output depends on RPM, and when the engine has shut down in the past, we were still motoring at well above fast idle. So it might be that even more juice was being lost due to a particularly dodgy connection?

Today, Miss November felt good and powerful and there were no unscheduled engine off moments. Might take a sight more local runs before I trust her further than I can push her . . .
 
Conclusions? Hmm. If the meter is accurate - 'Measurement accuracy: ±(0.2%)' according to that list of features

Fwiw Raymond, I'm running 4 Chinese voltmeters now (SG, Beemer, van and truck) that are claimed accurate to within ± 0.2%. None are. The closest is the van at just under a half a volt low. So yeah.... I don't put a lot of stock in what it reads so much as an indicator of changes in voltage... that shouldn't.
 
Fwiw Raymond, I'm running 4 Chinese voltmeters now (SG, Beemer, van and truck) that are claimed accurate to within ± 0.2%. None are. The closest is the van at just under a half a volt low. So yeah.... I don't put a lot of stock in what it reads so much as an indicator of changes in voltage... that shouldn't.
Buy cheap, buy twice. Quality counts as they say...... ;)
 
Conclusions? Hmm. If the meter is accurate - 'Measurement accuracy: ±(0.2%)' according to that list of features - then there is some loss of voltage through the ignition and Kill switches.

If that is true and you are losing a substantial amount of voltage through the wiring, then perhaps that is the reason your Boyer is acting up. If you recall, when I installed the Boyer in my XS2, I tested the voltage from the battery to where the wiring exited my factory wiring harness to the ignition power wire. I was seeing a nearly 2 volt drop from battery voltage. That’s why I installed a direct power feed to the Boyer unit , through a relay.
Another thought, I know some owners have experienced warpage of the stator plate,
IMG_9862.jpeg
That caused the magnetic rotor to contact the plate. Probably not happening to you but just a thought.
 
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