Musings on Boyer Bransden electronic ignition kit.

Its been a long time

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Thought it is probably worthwhile starting a new thread about the BB ignition kit. There's lots of information on the forum about it. But I hope my thoughts as I fit the system to my 77 XS650D back from the dead project might be useful to somebody.

First impression wasn't brilliant since the two NGK 5k plug caps are different colours. I have mailed the vendor about it. I want two the same colour. I don't think that's too unreasonable.

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Considering the kit has been manufactured since the 1970's there's some frustratingly bad things about it. In no particular order the bad things I've found so far are -

1 There's no information about what Loctite to use to fasten the magnet disc to the 8mm threaded rod. Seems quite important to me. There's nothing else holding the disc to the rod. I degreased both parts and used Loctite 270, a high strength grade.

2 A plain nut is provided for the other end of the threaded rod. That's totally nuts. There's only friction holding the nut on. The camshaft rotates clockwise (viewing the right engine side) so one day the nut is going to come loose. A spring washer is provided, but I used a nyloc self locking nut.

3 You need three hands to set the static ignition timing. The whole assembly isn't indexed at all and just depends on friction to maintain correct timing. It took me about an hour of fiddling around to get the static timing correct. I think this is the worst thing I have found on the kit to be honest.

4 In my opinion, the plastic magnet pick up plate should be aluminium.

5 Not everyone has the tools or the skill to make a ignition coil mounting bracket. There's nothing provided at all for that.

The good things in no particular order that I have found so far -

1 It isn't expensive for what you get.

2 It is made in the UK. That's a big plus for me.

3 The new ignition coil provided seems very high quality. It's made in Germany by PVL. I like that.

So far I've mounted the magnet and trigger assembly, set the static timing and mounted the ignition coil. I need to move the coil over about 3mm or it is in danger of rubbing on the inner face of the fuel tank near the front mounts. I need to remove the coil anyway to fit the blue igniter box behind the steering head. The flasher relay is going to be relocated on to the unused right side ignition coil mount.

So far, so good. I have unexpectedly ran out of crimp terminals. That's going to delay me wiring the unit up until the ones ordered get here. (One more moan, the red preinsulated crimps used by BB are junk).

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The Brit bike guys whine about those cheesy crimps too. Suspect they think of the xs as a tag along to the British twin business
Absolutely certainly the case. The blue box is marked BSA/Triumph/Yamaha XS650. The only bits that are different as far as I can see is the plastic backing plate, the 8mm threaded rod and associated bits. Negligible differences really. I can't believe BB haven't been told dozens of times how simple it would be to improve the kit a million times better. Simply putting a 13mm hex on the magnet plate would on its own be a massive improvement.
 
I also have found Boyer Bransden good to deal with when I needed to get some parts.
Item 4 the pick up plate is a circuit board so not really possible to make from aluminium but it is rather thin.

The pickup plate really needs spacers to get it to fit correctly in the points housing without distortion. Having to make parts to get a part to fit correctly is not what you expect from a premium quality unit. Then there is an issue with low battery voltage and the timing.
I personally regard BB units better than points but that's about it, others are fans I am not.
 
I also have found Boyer Bransden good to deal with when I needed to get some parts.
Item 4 the pick up plate is a circuit board so not really possible to make from aluminium but it is rather thin.

The pickup plate really needs spacers to get it to fit correctly in the points housing without distortion. Having to make parts to get a part to fit correctly is not what you expect from a premium quality unit. Then there is an issue with low battery voltage and the timing.
I personally regard BB units better than points but that's about it, others are fans I am not.
Thanks for the input. When I was looking at a conversion kit I found there's those in favour and those against every available option. No clear "go to" option.

Myself, I would have gone for the Tri Spark kit but it's much more expensive by the time it's arrived here.

So I thought I'd give the BB a go. It's quite frustrating that a couple of simple tweaks could make a fair unit into a really good one.
 
. . . Considering the kit has been manufactured since the 1970's there's some frustratingly bad things about it. In no particular order . . .
You have made a number of very fair points. It seems that BB are a bit stuck in time, rather like British Indian restaurants which seem to offer the same selection of curries they have punted out since they appeared in the 1970s. What they offer is good enough so why change the product?

I don't remember needing three hands to set the static ignition timing - the whole process of setting it up to run so you can strobe it and make the final adjustments was fairly straightforward except sometimes you need to dismount the plate and start again if your starting position runs out of adjustment on the slotted screw holes.

But it really does look like they could up the quality of a few bits as you said, rod fittings and connectors.

Having said all that, I've never had a BB ignition fail so in my personal experience it's top marks for reliability.
 
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You have made a number of very fair points. It seems that BB are a bit stuck in time, rather like British Indian restaurants which seem to offer the same selection of curries they have punted out since they appeared in the 1970s. What they offer is good enough so why change the product?

I don't remember needing three hands to set the static ignition timing - the whole process of setting it up to run so you can strobe it and make the final adjustments was fairly straightforward except sometimes you need to dismount the plate and start again if your starting position runs out of adjustment on the slotted screw holes.

But it really does look like they could up the quality of a few bits as you said, rod fittings and connectors.

Having said al that, I've never had a BB ignition fail so in my personal experience it's top marks for reliability.
Single biggest problem I found is that there's no way to hold the magnet plate while you tighten or loosen the M8 nut on the threaded rod. Tightening the nut can easily move the engine. So, I found I had to improvise a way to hold the magnet plate, tighten/loosen the nut and stop the engine turning all at the same time. Hence three hands.

That could be simply eliminated entirely by putting a hex nut on the magnet plate. Then there's something to stop it turning while you loosen/tighten the other nut. So simple. So annoying.

It is what it is and I've no doubt I'll forget about the hassle once I have it running.
 
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After a weekend of household chores and a day trip to the coast, finally got to wire up the BB ignition. I am itching to snip off the horrible red preinsulated crimps and put proper ones on. But I can't really since it's new and under warranty.

I pushed the blue igniter box up behind the steering tube as others have done. Have to say, on a standard bike there's not really anywhere else to put it. At least it can't fall out unless the ignition coil falls off first. I am not happy with the wiring as it is but without snipping all Boyer's terminals and starting again I can't do much with it.

A bit radical but if I get the bike going now, I might swap out the standard air boxes for UNI pod filters since I could then move the blue box onto the side of the battery box. I think that would be far better and a better ventilated location for it. Perhaps a job for winter.

Just need to double check the wiring, hook up a temporary fuel tank and see what happens now.

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I don’t have a BB but know many who do, all of which are pretty pleased with its performance. The nylock nut to me would seem to be something that would be included. To hold the shaft, could you cut a slot on the nut end so you can holt it while tightening / loosening the nut? I’m sure once it’s up and running you’ll be happy with it. Oh - re: the bad crimps - whenever I sniff these out, I will immediately solder and heat shrink tube the connections.
 
I just noticed, you may have the wrong size spark plug caps. Normally, we use the LB05F caps .....

NGK LB05.jpg


Your "D" type are for smaller 10mm or 12mm plugs .....

NGK_Resistor_Cover_Chart.jpg


But I guess all you can do is try them, see if they fit on your plugs.
 
I just noticed, you may have the wrong size spark plug caps. Normally, we use the LB05F caps .....

View attachment 331850

Your "D" type are for smaller 10mm or 12mm plugs .....

View attachment 331846

But I guess all you can do is try them, see if they fit on your plugs.
Well yes. According to that chart LD05F that I've just fitted are listed for 10 and 12mm plugs. I will see tomorrow when I start up (hopefully) but I've just fitted new plugs and the caps fitted them with that satisfying "zzzzip" sound.

Thanks yet again for your interest. The help here is truly astonishing. I had never noticed the "LD" versus "LB" in the plug caps BB supplied. (Ironically the spare red cap that BB first sent is an LB cap).
 
Well, they look the same to me, lol. I was concerned that maybe the "D" type had a smaller I.D. and wouldn't fit onto the 14mm plug, but you say they fit just fine?
 
Well, they look the same to me, lol. I was concerned that maybe the "D" type had a smaller I.D. and wouldn't fit onto the 14mm plug, but you say they fit just fine?
Like a glove. I would never have known they weren't the recommended plug cap. It's obvious paying attention to the box but I just took them out and thought they looked right. Never crossed my mind to double check.

Proof of the pudding will hopefully be tomorrow.
 
Well, I just found an LD05 drawing w/ dimensions and they are the same as the LB05 cap, so I guess you're fine. I wonder what the difference between the two is, if anything?

View attachment 331859
I will take a guess. At one time the LD and LB caps were different. But now they aren't. However, the legacy numbering system is still in use. Can't think of a better reason.
 
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