Needle roller bearing swingarm pivot

[festerandolini]

I have the all balls kit to convert my swing arm to needle roller bearing, and i had tried to install them already, but tapping the bearing in on the first side, forced the rollers out onto the filthy floor of my shed.

What is the best way to install these needle rollers? Have many people performed this mod?

Or should i just install the bronze bush set instead? It seems much easier.

 

[Signal]

Never used needle rollers. I would persevere with what you have (if you can find all the rollers) have a look on YouTube about installing them if you dont get the info you need here.

Bronze bushes are fine if they in good order, the swing arm does not rotate very far or fast. New bronze bushes are easy to install.

 

[festerandolini]

Never used needle rollers. I would persevere with what you have (if you can find all the rollers) have a look on YouTube about installing them if you dont get the info you need here.

Bronze bushes are fine if they in good order, the swing arm does not rotate very far or fast. New bronze bushes are easy to install.

Thank you. I will see how far i can get, and hopefully i dont crush the cages. The bronze bushes look very easy to install. I should be able to get some of the needle rollers from the bearing supply, if i lose any. I will give them a clean, slug some more grease into the cage and use the axle tube as an internal barrier... Maybe that will help.

 

[JJames]

Not trying to discourage you, especially as you already have the kit. Rollers just seem like overkill to me. I'd go with the bronze bushes. Keep em greased and you should have no issues.

 

[gggGary]

I installed ONE All-Balls needle kit after I realized they had sent two long instead of long and short needle bearings. After some experience with BMW needle bearings in short travel pivots, Never again, brass bushings are better here.

 

[T250tut]

Used the same kit myself- - dead easy if done right :0)
Heat on Swing arm - needle bearings in freezer overnight
Pull them into place with a length of threaded bar and suitable sized sockets

Job done

 

[RC4MAN]

Used the same kit myself- - dead easy if done right :0)
Heat on Swing arm - needle bearings in freezer overnight
Pull them into place with a length of threaded bar and suitable sized sockets

Job done

Basically a makeshift puller to install. It's the correct method rather than driving with hammer. Slow steady guided pressure.
That said I've owned bikes with both bronze bushing and needle bearing swingarm pivots and the general consensus is that needle rollers are probably not the best application. The amount of rolling of the needles is minimal and over time they'll wear into the races and not be as secure as solid bushings.

 

[jetmechmarty]

My XS1100 swingarm rides on conical roller bearings. I think the torque applied to them is in inch pounds. The frame is much different than that of the XS650. The torque applied to the swingarm bolt on the XS650 is pretty high. Could that preclude use of needle bearings. Right or wrong, it does for me.

FWIW, you have to ride a lot of miles with no grease to wear out the OE (plastic?) bushes.

 

[festerandolini]

My XS1100 swingarm rides on conical roller bearings. I think the torque applied to them is in inch pounds. The frame is much different than that of the XS650. The torque applied to the swingarm bolt on the XS650 is pretty high. Could that preclude use of needle bearings. Right or wrong, it does for me.

FWIW, you have to ride a lot of miles with no grease to wear out the OE (plastic?) bushes.

The original glass fibre nylon bushes had worn loose. I am not sure of the exact miles of my bike, as the odo i am pretty sure read around 60k k/m.

The wear and tear on the bike is consistent with that, but it looks like tha last 20k where rough, with few maintenance intervals.

The bike was either stored in an open shed/carport, or it was stored outside. The instrument cluster is very faded and cracked, the seat deteriorated and for the last few years it was stored in a pile, that had become a rat home.

I am not adverse to fitting the bronze bush. But i will give the threaded rod method a go first.

Edit: i checked the runout on the original bushes and they where out of spec. I had dry fitted everything and found there was a bit of play. I will see if i can make it work with the kit i have, and when i balls it up, i will try something else.

 

[jetmechmarty]

The original glass fibre nylon bushes had worn loose. I

I did not intend to imply that you should keep your original bushes or replace with OE. Only that they do their job. If they aren’t broken, I don’t fix them. Once the swingarm is out, I go to bronze. Just be sure everything is well lubed and correctly installed. I added a grease track to my assembly.

Swingarm setup has been covered on this forum in detail.

My experience.
https://www.xs650.com/threads/swingarm-play-pivot-bolt-damage.61232/
Pay particular attention to posts by grizld1

 

[halfmile]

I installed the needle bearings in a Radian swingarm a couple weeks ago. Heavy grease to hold the needles in place then froze them to below 0 degrees. Used heat gun on the swingarm tube ends and easily tapped them in with a rubber mallet. EZ Stuff.

 

[Bjorn]

I found the hardest bit to set the correct end play (axial). Between loose and fully torqued down swingarm pivot bolt/nut

 

[festerandolini]

I did not intend to imply that you should keep your original bushes or replace with OE. Only that they do their job. If they aren’t broken, I don’t fix them. Once the swingarm is out, I go to bronze. Just be sure everything is well lubed and correctly installed. I added a grease track to my assembly.

Swingarm setup has been covered on this forum in detail.

My experience.
https://www.xs650.com/threads/swingarm-play-pivot-bolt-damage.61232/
Pay particular attention to posts by grizld1

The swingarm was out when i got it. But if it was in better condition i would have left it.