New Guy from Nebraska

[PhatTony]

Long time lurker finally joining. I have two XS650's.
A 1977 Standard Restored Rider and a 1980 Special chopper project. I have two motors for it. The original from the bike I rebuilt and the extra one I rebuilt and rephased to a 277. I'm planning on fuel injecting it with either a Megasquirt or Microsquirt. I'm still waiting on funds for the cam, ignition, and EFI so i'm planning on running the factory engine with Mikunis after I finish hardtailing the frame.

The info on this board has helped me alot so I figured I'd better give back alittle where I can.

 

[XSLeo]

Welcome aboard.
The EFI sounds like a cool project.
Giving back is what makes these boards work.

 

[gggGary]

Yes giveback, hmm... Do you want my paypal address?

 

[XSLeo]

Hey, that would be pay back, not give back!

 

[Travis]

Hey welcome!! Glad to hear about another potential fuel injected XS650. . I'm assuming you are following Yamaha_chop's thread closely?

 

[PhatTony]

Ya, I started to follow Yamaha_Chop's thread on another board but joined this board since it gave much more information on our bikes. He's using a Throttle body from a car. I built a set of throttle bodies out of a set of R6 throttle bodies. With the two outer throttle bodies and some spacers it's pretty easy to get that part done. It's finding the extra power to operate the EFI and the fuel pump that will be the issue. Well, one of thousands. When I get better aquainted with this board I'll start a build thread. Need to learn how to load pics first

 

[curt698]

Ya, It's finding the extra power to operate the EFI and the fuel pump that will be the issue.

Have you looked into using LEDs for everything? Between brakes, turns, and headlight that should help a bit.

 

[PhatTony]

Yep, gonna go with LED's and go with a Permanent Magnet charging system too. I'm hoping that will be enough to eek out the extra juice I need. If that doesn't work I guess I'll rig up a GM alternator Um, probably not but if they can efi newer motorcycles there's got to be something I can do to get this charging system close.

 

[Travis]

It's finding the extra power to operate the EFI and the fuel pump that will be the issue. Well, one of thousands. When I get better aquainted with this board I'll start a build thread. Need to learn how to load pics first

Another EFI build thread would be great! That permanent magnet setup should give you enough power I would imagine.

As far as the pictures go, this should help: How to Post Pictures

 

[cooltouch]

Hey Tony,

EFI is definitely cool, provided you get it dialed in right. Mega/Micro-squirt will definitely give you flexibility for any sort of future mods you may do to the motor, too. I'm just thinking, though -- another possibility might be to scavenge a system off a bike with similar displacement. The fuel pump would already be more-or-less the right size that way, and may not tax the charging system overly much.

Where do you plan on locating your injectors? Downstream of the throttle body(s), right in front of the intake ports?

 

[PhatTony]

I've thought about adapting something like that but there are not many 360 degree engines out there that have been efi'd from the factory. I do like the flexibility to modify the bike and be able to change a few settings on my laptop. I also like the fact I can change the timing curve and not rely on a mechanical advance. I don't like the price though. What I did was take a set of R6 throttle bodies (03-05) and separate each individual throttle body. I used the two end throttle bodies and spaced them for the XS intake spacing. The fuel injectors are molded into the throttle bodies. The R6 makes about twice as much HP as the XS 650 so I figured the injector size will be close. I'll snap a pic of it when I get back out there. The R6 rubber intakes just needed a little elongating of the mount holes and it all bolts up.

 

[Phyberoptic]

I built a set of throttle bodies out of a set of R6 throttle bodies. With the two outer throttle bodies and some spacers it's pretty easy to get that part done. Need to learn how to load pics first

can you show the details of the throttle bodies mod from the R6 set? I look at pictures of the R6 and can see how that would work.....

-=PO

 

[PhatTony]

Sure, Here's a pic of them.

These are from an 2003-2005 I believe. These are 4 individual throttle bodies bolted together. There are some that are cast together and those cannot be split. Double check on eBay. I see a lot of Throttle bodies showing the wrong year.

Ignore that hose clamp stuff on the fuel rail. I was trying a couple of different things since I cut the fuel rail too short.
You only use the outside throttle bodies the one with the throttle boss on it and the Throttle position sensor. The inside ones are useless in this two cylinder application

 

[Phyberoptic]

Ahh... thanks. Yeah, I must have been looking at the ones from '06 and later that are cast together in pairs. This is nice.... I'll have to head down to Cycle Salvage now and negotiate a set. I've got the rest worked out I think using a PIC (stamp sized microcontroller) for my ECU.
I had thought to use the mikuni carbs as TBs, but the injector mounting was going to be a pain.

This will be great for next winter when she starts cold no problem.... I had a low battery from the cold so the starter would not kick her over last night... and she dosen't kick start like my old triumph. I was out of breath by the time I got her running.

-=PO

 

[PhatTony]

I've never heard of a PIC. Are you building an ECU from scratch? If you are
Electronics have never been my cup'o tea but I do like to learn anything and everything.

Hense the delay in my project, I'm taking my final classes to finish up my degree so the bike gets to sit on the snow covered back burner. Come summer I'll get her finished and hopefully be the 13th or 14th person to EFI an XS on this board.

 

[Phyberoptic]

I've never heard of a PIC. Are you building an ECU from scratch? If you are
Electronics have never been my cup'o tea but I do like to learn anything and everything.

I thought I'd give it a try.

PIC is a family of Harvard architecture microcontrollers made by Microchip Technology, derived from the PIC1640 originally developed by General Instrument's Microelectronics Division. The name PIC initially referred to "Peripheral Interface Controller".

PICs are popular with both industrial developers and hobbyists alike due to their low cost, wide availability, large user base, extensive collection of application notes, availability of low cost or free development tools, and serial programming (and re-programming with flash memory) capability.


But.... I'm also looking at the manufactuer of the ECUs (Freescale) for most of the auto industry to see if there are some purpose built components available (or custom ASICs that can be borrowed for a home brew). Freescale has a small-engine ASIC MC33812, which is an highly integrated all-in-one chip, including fuel injection driver, ignition driver, voltage regulator, etc. The software tools for this are where the big time hole will be. I've not looked but figure this is the basis for the Micro-squirt??

-=PO

 

[PhatTony]

The microsquirt is based off of a system called the megasquirt. Definately look into that. It is a DIY EFI system. You can buy a kit that has everything in it. All you do is spend 4-8 hours soldering it together. I've used the Megasquirt on a couple cars and it worked great. I unfortunately had to follow thier directions as I didn't know much about electronics at the time but you might be able to change out parts for more robust ones.

Here's a link

I'm sure there are other options out there but this system made it a lot easier for me to understand and learn. Everything's layed out in the "Mega Manual"