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New here, need some help!!

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Xs6502021, Apr 23, 2021.

  1. Xs6502021

    Xs6502021 XS650 Enthusiast

    Hey guys I have a 81 xs650 kickstart. Have PMA, original points. But now replaced the regulator, capacitor, switched to mikexs ignition gen 2 and new dual output coil. I can't get this bike to start. Got it from craigslist dude lied and said it needed one thing. I can't find a wiring diagram to match this crapshow wiring. The kill switch has three wires: one is attached to the headlight, one to the taillight, one leads down to a 30amp fuse and then connects to the key ignition(acc) but nothing to coils.. The other switch connects to headlight and ground. The coils were connected to an orange wire that connects to a 30amp fuse that connects to the same spot (acc)of the key ignition. The positive from capacitor connects to the regulator, key ignition, and that's it. Then the negative capacitor is grounded, and attached to Killswitch and ignition. I don't know what the heck is going on here. The only wiring that's right is the new stuff I did, regulator to PMA and then ignition to coils. I'm debating on taking every wire off this bike and rewiring it from head to toe, but there's so many diagrams idk which one to use or go by .. but if someone has a suggestion first before I do that it's be so helpful! Thanks
     
    LanzSilva, Team Junk and Jim like this.
  2. Team Junk

    Team Junk XS650 Guru XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    1st question. Is it making spark.
    81 engine was a tci ignition so the points were not stock. The orange wire to the coil is the negative side of the coil so are wired backwards.
     
    Paul Sutton and Xs6502021 like this.
  3. nj1639

    nj1639 Paleo-simplistic Top Contributor

    IMG_0053.PNG '81 TCI bike improved to death, sounds like a botched abortion.
    In my xs650 world there are two ignitions to choose from and that's points or TCI, and of those two I choose TCI. Other opinions may vary but I'll include a simplified schematic for those two choices........
     
    Paul Sutton and Xs6502021 like this.
  4. Xs6502021

    Xs6502021 XS650 Enthusiast

    So if I take out the spark plug and ground it there is spark. Is there a different way I should test? Also when the points was on it I'd see spark when trying to kickstart. But yes they added the points to it along with a PMA and capacitor.side note, I'm a beginner with bikes so I apologize if I'm bad at explaining lol. Also the orange wire should be with red or green on the new dual output coil, or should I route it somewhere else? The colors of the wires are completely different than all wiring diagrams which screws me up too.
     
  5. Xs6502021

    Xs6502021 XS650 Enthusiast

    NJ, are you saying to go the tci wiring route or switch back altogether to tci. Here's the thing also, I don't have any of the horn, lights, etc besides tail light and headlight. The frame is a 75 frame and I was told it was a 75 engine to start. Well after checking the numbers it is not, it is an 81 engine on a 75 frame. And I have no idea if they bought the right parts or what in the name of crap happened. This bike is a mess lol. I'm about to drop it off at a shop and say here ya go but would love to fix it myself if I could, worked on cars my whole life but bikes are new to me. Lol
     
    nj1639 likes this.
  6. Xs6502021

    Xs6502021 XS650 Enthusiast

    xswire1.jpg xs650_wiring_mayfield_01.png xswirenew.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Paul Sutton likes this.
  7. Raymond

    Raymond XS650 rider & fettler XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    My vote would be re-wire the bike yourself. Has the advantage that at least you know what's in there and how it all connects together as a system. There are numerous wiring diagrams on the forum, ranging from complex full-factory systems with all the unnecessary safety relays through to very simple systems with PMA, no battery and little else. Once you've rewired it yourself, and taken notes, you won't be asking questions like what does the orange wire do?

    PS we crossed in the post - I see you're looking at some of those simpler systems.
     
    LanzSilva, Paul Sutton and Xs6502021 like this.
  8. Xs6502021

    Xs6502021 XS650 Enthusiast

    Thanks Raymond! Yeah these are super simplified point a to point b diagrams I found. I was thinking of buying a new Killswitch, new key switch(witha simple on and off instead of the three), and might even need a new headlight switch as it is connected to the Killswitch. And buying wires that match the diagram color and needed fuses etc and just ripping all this off.. I have no clue why it all connects to where it does. It seems as though someone TRIED (keyword!!) To follow multiple different diagrams at the same time. My understand is this: the Killswitch is supposed to always somehow connect to the coil. Right? Because mine has three wires and one connects to key and the other two connect to headlights which I don't understand, since there's a separate headlight switch too. I just want to make sure I fully understand the diagram before I go ahead. It seems almost too easy of a question to ask lol
     
  9. Xs6502021

    Xs6502021 XS650 Enthusiast

    I have to add how great this place is, so much help and so fast too. Other places I never get replied to as a newbie, and am so grateful for the help!
     
    Team Junk likes this.
  10. Xs6502021

    Xs6502021 XS650 Enthusiast

    This is the best I can do before work. There are 5 yellow wires on this bike. Two 30amp fuses. They all connect in what seems like a circle almost.i swear everything connects to the headlights and tail it seems. (Bty I meant capacitor) and excuse my cardboard box diagram.. ylw 1-5 is listed half of them are cut and a new wire added or maybe they ran out of wire not sure.. but if you see the orange is literally only attached to the coil afuse and the key switch.
     

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  11. nj1639

    nj1639 Paleo-simplistic Top Contributor

    Figure what system you want to run and stick with it, plenty of info in the tech section listed as 'electrical'. Get yer parts and pieces all together, pick out a schematic and then go for it .
     
  12. Xs6502021

    Xs6502021 XS650 Enthusiast

    Thanks NJ! Thinking I'm going to go this route. I like the ignition isnt close to kill switch, as my set up makes it harder to move it around.. would these parts suffice you think, or should I order it online? I don't have any bike places in a 50 mile radius of me that sells anything for me. Besides advanced auto parts but it doesn't have guarantee fit.
     

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  13. nj1639

    nj1639 Paleo-simplistic Top Contributor

    I can't vouch for any of that lol, my bike runs on a reconfigured stock harness where all the switches were in place thereabouts, and I stick with TCI.
     
    Xs6502021 likes this.
  14. Xs6502021

    Xs6502021 XS650 Enthusiast

    That's okay! You guys have been super helpful. I have basic knowledge of electronics thanks to side classes at school, I think I can handle it lol. But what gives me confidence is I can't botch this any worse than the first dude lmao
     
    Paul Sutton, nj1639 and Team Junk like this.
  15. Jan_P

    Jan_P XS650 Junkie

    569
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    Sweden
    There is always a possibility to make a bad situation worse
    If i have read this right
    You have spark and then the reason for not starting most likely is something else # 4
    It appears to be a 1981
    Those have multiple subsystems and fuses
    Assuming that is the base ... Changes are added to that and then the replacement parts come with instructions which one follows to the letter
    there is mention of 30 A fuses I would change those quick to about half that.
    If that is to large go up but if the 20 blows I would not go higher before think it over.
    Without any Schematic it is difficult for us to give sound advice and pictures can help
    But one way forward can be smaller fuses
    Check if there is sparks at both sides and then as first assumption check the fuel delivery.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2021
    Xs6502021 likes this.
  16. Team Junk

    Team Junk XS650 Guru XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    I would work on the ignition problems first and get the bike to run, then work on the PMA, lights etc.

    The points style ignition system only has a few wires. There are 2 wires to the coil one goes to the kill switch and the other to the points and condensers on the side of the head.

    Check your timing.

    I wouldn't go out and buy a bunch of new switch gear. What you have should work fine once everything is hooked up properly.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2021
  17. Xs6502021

    Xs6502021 XS650 Enthusiast

    Yeah I have spark but once it is kicked it does literally nothing. I tried everything with the initial points and then decided to replace it to the electronic ignition thinking maybe the person hooked up the points wrong since it isn't stock.the fuses were weird to me because two 30 fuses just came off odd, as every schematic I see is 10s and highest 20 for the regulator. And see, I don't have two wires on it lol. There's literally nothing connecting to the coil, five wires that connect from the kill switch to the ignition to the headlights, and then stuff from the ignition to regulator and capacitor.. lol. The only reason I want to buy new switch gear and wires is because I don't know where to start on this, nothing is hooked up to where it should be and I feel like just going one place to another trouble shooting would be longer than just rewiring if that makes sense? I've been trouble shooting and replacing (what I was told was the problem when I bought it) and it still doesn't start at all. Fuel delivery and carb etc are in good shape from what I've tested and seen but the spark is a very weak spark
     
  18. Raymond

    Raymond XS650 rider & fettler XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    To summarise the advice so far - re-wire the bike yourself, choose a simple schematic you like, assume the switches and electrical components are good until you prove otherwise, rip all the existing wires out, (I wouldn't even worry too much about noting what's there if we assume it's all just plain wrong), buy an assortment of tracer wires in the colours you need, some bullet-type connectors, crimping tool, wire cutters. Or maybe you prefer to solder it up? Replace the fuses with 10 and 20 Amp. Work methodically and wire her up following your chosen scheme. If we all know what scheme you're aiming at, should be able to assist if you get stuck.

    It's going to be up to you to figure it out but there will be plenty of help if you follow a known scheme and put up some photos.
     
    Xs6502021 and nj1639 like this.
  19. Jan_P

    Jan_P XS650 Junkie

    569
    837
    93
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    Yes to Raymond
    Please upload pictures
    If the Coil has nothing connected ..There's literally nothing connecting to the coil,

    Where does the spark Come From ? --> Yeah I have spark but once it is kicked it does literally nothing .. but the spark is a very weak spark
     
    Raymond and Xs6502021 like this.
  20. Xs6502021

    Xs6502021 XS650 Enthusiast

    Honestly Jan, I have no idea lol. I don't know why there's spark. That sounds awful. To second Raymond ya since it's so bad I'm definitely going to go with new wiring job. Then that way even if it is fine right now I know the difference of the wires and colors and etc. Im going to go with a new ignition just so that way I can make it the normal on off instead of the three way. And rewiring I can get a fuse box and make it like this schematic. The only difference is no USB port lol. And I'm going to use a ten fuse on all three and then 7.5 for kill switch. I think I'm going to solder all but the coil wires I'll use the female prong, just to make it cleaner and I'm fond of soldering lol
     

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    Raymond likes this.

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