New here, need some help!!

Jan_P

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Also - I moved the taillight and reg ground to separate places and made no difference either. I have tried several different bolts for all the grounds, and the electronic ignition is currently hooked up to neg battery

OK lets do this
Ignition ground is at battery please keep it there.
12 V s on coil and ignition
Full retard on the ignition on right and left side please keep it so
Does anything happen at all kicking ?
Does it kickback ?
Is the clicking sound there at the coils
( I am at kickback means ...something is in like gas and there is spark but at the wrong time so if the full retard
changes that ..perhaps even make it shoot in the exhaust its a sign )
Please report ill look more at the pictures meanwhile.
 

Jan_P

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Please give info on the regulator ..bare with me if I complicate it But that new regulator should be for the correct alternator
In the US pre 80 and post 80 are different
But since alternator problems are common the alternator can be changed

please recheck the order for the regulator .and please try to check what alternator is there
post # 4 there about
http://www.xs650.com/threads/expanded-charging-system-guide-in-progress.10561/

I Notice that there is no exhaust --- that might complicate things I
would install that

https://www.kawasakimotorcycle.org/threads/riding-bike-without-exhaust-pipe.137463/
 
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Xs6502021

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OK lets do this
Ignition ground is at battery please keep it there.
12 V s on coil and ignition
Full retard on the ignition on right and left side please keep it so
Does anything happen at all kicking ?
Does it kickback ?
Is the clicking sound there at the coils
( I am at kickback means ...something is in like gas and there is spark but at the wrong time so if the full retard
changes that ..perhaps even make it shoot in the exhaust its a sign )
Please report ill look more at the pictures meanwhile.

To answer this one first: no there's nothing. No clicking noise, no kickback. Also are you saying it's AT full retard and leave it there or it's not at fullretard so MOVE it there, just so I'm understanding correctly.
 

Xs6502021

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Please give info on the regulator ..bare with me if I complicate it But that new regulator should be for the correct alternator
In the US pre 80 and post 80 are different
But since alternator problems are common the alternator can be changed

please recheck the order for the regulator .and please try to check what alternator is there
post # 4 there about
http://www.xs650.com/threads/expanded-charging-system-guide-in-progress.10561/

I Notice that there is no exhaust --- that might complicate things I
would install that

https://www.kawasakimotorcycle.org/threads/riding-bike-without-exhaust-pipe.137463/


The regulator is from tc bros and is for that year and make. It's brand new. It's hooked up as the wiring diagram says too be. The alternator is D&M and I can't find anything about it anywhere. No clue about it. But the alternator shouldn't cause an issue starting as long as battery is full charge, but will be the issue if it doesn't stay running.. or am I wrong, and it needs to work? Was told it doesn't need to even be hooked up at first when trying to fix start issues

As for the exhaust, it's off right now because it's too hard to work on everything with it there, it's just in the way once I get it started I will hook up the exhaust again
 

Jan_P

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To answer this one first: no there's nothing. No clicking noise, no kickback. Also are you saying it's AT full retard and leave it there or it's not at fullretard so MOVE it there, just so I'm understanding correctly.

It should be at full retard now until the kickback is gone.
What needs to be checked now is that there is spark at the plugs.
On Boyer Bransden system I check that via taking out a spark plug and hold it or connect it against the engine block or cylinder head and kick with spark plug cap on . the spark can be seen.

Please read precautions so it don't fry
https://www.mikesxs.net/blog/xscharge-xs650-standard-ignition-installation/

And wait a while give others a chance to protest.
If no spark recheck power supply and ground.
Please come back.
We figure out how measure where power disappears
If you have spark slowly advance until it fires or kickback if kickback go back again.

I am not sure it will run at all without exhaust system. Maybe Maybe not
It is a question of pressure Waves and pressure ..and there is no intake filters
The combustion chamber have non standard parameters.
No exhaust may well send out and suck in the wrong mixture
But lets find the spark at the plugs

D&M is that a permanent magnetic alternator
 

Jan_P

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Having looked at the pictures it appears that the black from Coil ..connects with a red and then goes to the minus on the battery

Are those only twisted together if so please solder or use a spade terminal


upload_2021-6-11_2-33-59.png
 

650Skull

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Red wires used from the positive and negative from the Battery is asking for compilations.....Only takes one mistake and things are fried. Always have differnt coloured wiring for different circuits. On XS650's black is always earth/Ground

Personally i would never run a negative from the battery to the engine.......... Always to the frame.................. If for any reason, the negative cable is removed and reinstalled on the battery while the ignition is on you are running power through all the bearings on the motor. These can arc out through the balls in the bearings causing damage.

Just saying where your Reg/rec is bought from and it is the right one does not answer the question, weather the Reg/rect is for a pre, (B type), or post, (A type), 80 model. ...........Cant help confirm/diagnose weather you have the right one or not
 

Xs6502021

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Okay so i have no idea what d&m is aside from it's a PMA. I can't find the brand anywhere online and haven't ever seen the logo before either. I'm thinking it's probably gonna need replaced but should kick over with or without it working only if battery has enough charge..

As for the red and red, I know it's confusing right now the only place that I could get wire only had red so I had to use what I could get in the meantime, and haven't ordered online since I know which is which. But yes it's def best to have red and black wire I'm sorry!!

I didn't want to run it to the battery, I was just told to on here to see if that worked. It's been grounded this entire time I've tried two different grounds and now the neg terminal, still no change.

That's just twisted together right now because it's the new electronic ignition. I didn't want to solder and unsolder and I don't have any clips to clip together in the meantime, I had electrical tape on it before the pic but took off to show what's connect to what lol. But everything else is soldered together. I rested volts and it's still getting right voltage though which is why I left it as is for right now.

As for reg)rec I don't know the answer then I spoke with tc bros specifically and they gave me that one so I'm not really sure what it is, I don't see why they would sell me the wrong one though
 

650Skull

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[QUOTE="650Skull, post: 698145, member: 316"
Just saying where your Reg/rec is bought from and it is the right one does not answer the question, weather the Reg/rect is for a pre, (B type), or post, (A type), 80 model. [/QUOTE]

Just remembered you have a PMA so it should be for a PMA.......
 

Jan_P

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This is getting difficult .
Non stock ignition
No Air filter
No Exhaust
Unknown components Charging no Pictures of that
Not really following instructions or suggestions.
But still not impossible

Please keep the negative ground ..at this point in time .Please recheck the Twisted Red and Black
I keep on saying that as a parrot --- and it is close to ten bikes within a Year were the cause for not running properly was poor ground
So only twisting the ground wires black to red might be to hurt oneself. .. and keep max retard on ignition.
We want Spark and no Kickback

Is there any spark when spark plug is out of engine held against the cylinder head kicking.
If not do you have a Voltmeter or Test lamp

The aim is to ascertain that Ignition and spark is there .And then go for the Carburetor .
Subsystem after Subsystem

I assume so ( Voltmeter ) please measure at a couple points
The Voltage Red/Red --to Ground on battery ( Upper on Picture below )
The Voltage Green ----to Ground on battery ( Lower on Picture below )

Coil.JPG
 

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My 78 would not start but had spark and I replaced the condensers and it started first kick. Not sure if that's any help to you but good luck getting it sorted and on the road.
 

Xs6502021

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This is getting difficult .
Non stock ignition
No Air filter
No Exhaust
Unknown components Charging no Pictures of that
Not really following instructions or suggestions.
But still not impossible

Please keep the negative ground ..at this point in time .Please recheck the Twisted Red and Black
I keep on saying that as a parrot --- and it is close to ten bikes within a Year were the cause for not running properly was poor ground
So only twisting the ground wires black to red might be to hurt oneself. .. and keep max retard on ignition.
We want Spark and no Kickback

Is there any spark when spark plug is out of engine held against the cylinder head kicking.
If not do you have a Voltmeter or Test lamp

The aim is to ascertain that Ignition and spark is there .And then go for the Carburetor .
Subsystem after Subsystem

I assume so ( Voltmeter ) please measure at a couple points
The Voltage Red/Red --to Ground on battery ( Upper on Picture below )
The Voltage Green ----to Ground on battery ( Lower on Picture below )

View attachment 193090

It's not that I'm ignoring suggestions or not doing what asked.. I've done literally everything you guys have told me 50 times and it isn't working lol. I have spark I'm not going to keep taking it out and checking and I have the right volts everywhere it's not that. I've moved the ground 55 times to every possible point on the bike and this time it's only twisted because it's new and I'm sick of cutting off soldered wires to try new stuff but i can solder it again but the bike isn't going to run because I've tried with two different coils and ignitions and still no luck soldered or not.. the carburetor is adjusted and has new floats and new jets and new gaskets and new everything it's absolutely spotless and sparkling they're basically brand new now it took me days to clean and rebuild because I wanted to do it perfect..

the red red is measuring at 12.6(sometimes to 12.4) still and the green comes out at about 11.7.

I really am sorry I sound like a broken record and am coming off as rude or as not listening but i don't mean to, it's only because I've done all of this over and over again I'm not lying when I say this bike just hates me lol.
 

Xs6502021

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Also Jan what do you mean unknown components charging with no pics? Do you mean you want pics of alternator or other things? Sorry I don't know what u meant lol
 

Jan_P

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Yes Sir. We are gonna fix this.
A little bit cooperation and cut back on the Everything is fixed already -- it is Obviously not
Thank you for the voltage at Red and Green looks right

So Spark is there ..Right and there are at the moment no ignition and no kickback regardless of the Position of the advance.
If you have spark I would advance it a little --- still late but not at the Max retard.

So then we are over that Hurdle so to speak Moving on to fuel delivery.
Now the intake has no filters and the exhaust is not there ..What that can do is
A leaning out of the mixture into the cylinders ( More air on the intake )
And upon exhaust stroke there is no resistance
This is something I don't know on these bikes but some engines have overlap on the Cam so the intake and output valve overlap
a little so it is open at both sides.
And in this case the mixture is ( or can be ) off drastically because of the intake and exhaust " fault " in relation to design parameters in Japan there and then.

I believe this is sensitive .The Carburetor Boys can tell more But I feel that even with Stock Intake and Exhaust it can be Difficult to start.
Weak spark or at the wrong timing Very difficult.

I would have bolted on the exhaust at least .. Getting it more close to design spec If this is not stock exhaust it might not be the solution
But Unknown jetting and open IN and OUT .It can be to difficult Bordering to not a snowballs chance in hell.

One can also try a little starter fluid in the intake and .Personally I would have inserted a little into the spark plug holes
If nothing else helps , Can be a bit dangerous but I have done that . .It would then fire once if spark .But nothing more most likely if the Ports are open.

Putting it like this If spark is there How ensure fuel and air in correct Proportions.
Again I Would install the exhaust .But other here can come in if they have started without intake filters and no Exhaust
I would not think so.
The lean intake and Wrong mixture can explain kickback .. Nothing wrong with the ignition it is the mixture that is Off.

Please consider the starting fluid in intake and / or install the Exhaust . Please come back with thoughts.
Someone else carburetor guru perhaps has a clever solution --- choke ??

If there is no difference Left or Right then it would be strange a carburetor fault .Fuel coming in ?
 

Xs6502021

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Okay I will have to install exhaust back. In the meantime I still don't have that clicking noise in the coil that I did when it would seem like it was going to kick over.. this bike is a nightmare lol.
 

Jan_P

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Okay I will have to install exhaust back. In the meantime I still don't have that clicking noise in the coil that I did when it would seem like it was going to kick over.. this bike is a nightmare lol.

Yes Sir
Stay cool
If you have power at coils and Spark at Plugs ,,The no click sound does not matter.
These bikes can rattle and make noises it can be many things I have a Loose lamp glass .that rattles like the engine is coming apart.
At certain revs.
Taking your word for it the Carburetors are serviced and fuel are getting to the carburetors.
Then it most definitely can be a Question of Air supply --- the right amount for the fuel.
At this point in time the most likely problem.

After the exhaust is there feel free to kick and use starter fluid. Please report back .Perhaps a little testing on the advance setting.
Why not from the middle setting according to ignition installation recommendations
If it kicks back it is to much advanced if it shoots in the exhaust it is to late.
 
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