New XS650....new to everything and a battery question

Maine_dad

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Should find the other end at terminal lug on starter solenoid and at that ring terminal should include 12ga red wire splice that goes to fuse box connector for main fuse (20A)

aka battery positive cable
Got it. Thanks. My electrical brain was asking, why is there another negative? (Black=negative). If it were red, I guess it would add another color to the bike. Black blended better. Now my architect mind is working! Ha!
 

jpdevol

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The new one will have a shiny red boot
23-3504_01.jpg
 

Maine_dad

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Well, i was really hoping to get it started and went down some rabbit holes but cant get a spark. Checked the kill switch. Seems to work, but took it apart to make sure. Grounds SEEM to be in order; i have continuity from new negative wire to spots on engine(not entire engine, but threads of spark plug hole i do). Coils seem to test out ok as to resistence(primary and secondary), but will double check that. All new wiring for fuses and fuse holder in place. New battery. Watched the videos and adjusted cam and points. The only thing i didnt do on that front was check timing. I am holding connected spark plug to multiple ground points with no spark. I feel like it will be something obvious, or I am reading resistance wrong, or some other stupid thing. the engine cranks and the pistons go uppy and downy, everything is spinning. No dang spark. Sigh. Thabks for listening to me vent.
 

jpdevol

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On the kill switch: no ground involved there, just connects R/W wire in to R/W out when in ON position - no continuity when in either OFF position.

??
 
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Maine_dad

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On the kill switch: no ground involved there, just connect R/W wire in to R/W out when in ON position - no continuity when in either OFF position.

??
Funny you should say that. So i took the whole thing off and just connected the two wires. Start button didnt work. unless, of course it is on the handlbar (ground, I assume) and then it works.
 

jpdevol

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Starter button does supply ground to solenoid on L/W wire via handlebars


78_XS650SE (2).jpg
 
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Wirenutt

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Welcome to the joy that is the Yamaha XS650 world. There is probably 1000 years worth of experience on this forum, you will get the correct answer most of the time. I have some experience resurrecting XS650s that have sat for 30 years, I ride one regularly, and recently finished another.

Absolutely remove the airboxes and you will probably find your little mouse friend had taken up residence in one or both.

Buy a manual, Clymer's, Chilton's, or the one from Yamaha. There are also manuals available here: https://thexscafedotcom.wordpress.com/2011/01/10/xs650-manuals/

Remove the bottom oil sump cover. There lies a suction screen that is ripped and ineffective 95% of the time.

Regarding the need for a battery in order to start, even with the kickstarter, jpdevol has covered that accurately. Without a battery (or a permanent magnet alternator), the bike is just a helpless lump of parts.
 

Oldnwiser

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REALLY helpful; thank you!
Definitely use JIS, Snap-on has a set of bits to fit a T-handle or a bit driver for a low speed power driver. All of my tools are Snap-on. They are well worth the investment. My 3/8 and 1/4 drive is imp, metric and JIS have been so good, and the ratchets are top notch. I have the 3/8 ratchet of the best caliber. It’s a bent handle swivel I got in the 90’s had one rebuild $0 even though I worked the daylights out of it, broke loose things that should have 1/2 drive, but it contorts itself into any position I have had to do and it did it. My 1/4,is a swivel but straight handle and all of my sockets are mid depth and full sets of extensions and they just always get it done, diesel, gas, and motorcycle. It’s all the best investment I ever made. If you’re working on old Japanese stuff, the JIS bits and driver, plus a ratchet attachment for the drivers and the bent handle 3/8 swivel and 1/4 swivel ratchets with mid depth sockets are the go- tos for me. The right tools make the work therapeutic. I might need another XS even though I’m blind. I can organize the entire bike to get it back together, channel a lot of negativity into something constructive. I built a 600 hp 390 at .040 over. Ported the heads only to have them stolen, but I did another set with out seeing, just feeling. I don’t have a flow bench any more. What are flow numbers anyway?
 

Oldnwiser

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A to B is not stock wiring, don't know it's purpose - maybe to fix issue with original box. C, is battery negative as you ID'd. D may have been return feed from ign switch. Green wire & fuse holder not stock, same as AB.

One can get wire, terminals, solder and repair all that. Or...:

https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs650-fuse-box-with-connector-plugs-cover.html

https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs650-battery-negative-cable-to-frame-74-84-oem-447-82116-00.html

https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs650-battery-positive-cable-for-74-84-oem-447-82115-001.html

Not from my preferred supplier, but in this case perhaps best route. Opinions?
I wired my last bike with relays for high draw stuff with baby spade blocks to trigger the relays. And the fused stuff with a spade weatherpack all tucked in. The loom became so much more elegant and after that I drew out a schematic with numbers to make the loom easy to follow. I printed it out on label paper and after cleaning and painting and weather packing put the stickers on and printed the master on a card with tri folds to fit in the tool packJIS bits and a small driver and a small tree of relays and blade fuses. I had a small snap box that I could tuck into a factory style loom tie like a belt and wrap it around the frame under the tank. If going a long way you could pack a small soldering kit some heat shrink and a voltage meter with component targets to test and a spare set of brushes for the alternator and points / condenser as l like to run if I can the(kiss principle) and a mini timing light. Have a false bottom in your bag to keep your clothes clean.
 

Oldnwiser

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I just picked up a 78 650 Special. It has been sitting for 30 years. I hope to rebuild it with my son (for as long as his patience lasts anyway). In any event, I am a total noob here. New to bikes, relatively new to vehicles (I putter on some cars and "figure stuff out"). As such, if you respond please assume I know nothing.

So, we picked it up this weekend and I took apart the front brake line and fluid reservoir and succeded in fixing the front brake (which makes it easier/safer to move around). I decided to see if the kick start could move but it wouldn't. We put a little marvel into the plugs. I still couldn't move it (was only using half pressure as I didnt want to break anything). There is oil in the case, and I can get the kickstart moving with the clutch handle pulled in. I am guessing that means seized engine.

My hope is to get it started before I start tearing in to it, if possible. So my real question is actually about the electric system. I read through a bunch of posts on this site and see a battery is needed to start it. I will have to fix a couple wires the mice used as chew toys before I do that. But I would like to know why the battery is required. It seems as though it has something to do with the starter maybe? I am just curious on the starting process that would get power to the starter(?) at the exact time I try to kick start? Hopefully, that question makes sense. I am just looking to understand the bike's starting process, specifically as it relates to the kick starter. I imagine there are more than a few people here that can answer that off the top of thwir heads!

Thanks in advance

Edit(update) after typing this I went to go play a bit and tried @pamcapote suggestion of turning the 17mm bolt on the alternator (I had to google where it was). After just a little pressure with a standard ratchet it turned! The kick start is no longer stuck and makes the sound you would expect to hear. Now on to the electrical, drain and fresh gas, battery, and start attempt. Still curious about the "how" on the battery electrical.
Put some ATF in the cylinders and drain the oil and fill the sump with ATF with a new filter. It’s likely that water may run out before oil . If was stored outside. While it is soaking send the tank to a company that restores rusty fuel tanks and you may possibly need new Petcocks (fuel feeding valves. Let it sit for a month this way waiting for your tank and possibly new petcocks and gaskets! Hoses. When it comes back, use the kickstarter with the plugs in and try to move the pistons not with your foot, but your hand, slowly try to push it through until it stops, wait a bit and move it again, keep going until you are sure that both cylinders are free. Before going further pull the tappet covers and as you move it down watch the tappers all 4 are moving and closing freely open is .400 and closed you should see lash. If this works put the tappet covers back on and just gently tighten them, pull the plugs and make sure that you are in a place where it’s OK to make a mess. Get set and give it a good kick through, this will eject ATF and rust, do this a few times until it stops shooting ATF out. Put in a clean set of plugs put the tank back on make the petcocks are set to offf . Have fire extinguisher handy, put a half gallon of gas and that your hose is connected to the battery. Hook up the battery, a new one and be sure that the + goes to the + on the battery and the - likewise, turn on the key and you should see lights to indicate neutral and a red light that means the ignition is on. Turn it off for a moment turn the petcocks to RES, this means reserve, and watch the carbs for any leaks if they leak turn the petcocks back to Off. carefully note where they are leaking and remove them as a pair and put them in a bucket upside down to drain in an open out door area. Get car kits and use the instructions to clean them and replace any rusty parts like the floats, needle and seats on the inlet side. Get all of the crud out and reassemble them carefully setting the floats installing the new needle and seats being careful to install any washers and gaskets. Be very patient. The valves ( diaphragms) underneath the top caps after this amount of time are likely hard and cracked. When you remove the top screws there are also linkages or cable supports . These all have to back exactly as they came off. You likely have the rest of the carbs assembled and set to the recommended base settings, good for you! No need to hurry now. Raise the diaphragm one one carb if there is any gasket like material you’ll notice it was a chunk of the old diaphragm. Get the surface clean without gouging it and blow any dust or cobwebs away. Install the diaphragm and the linkage support for that carb , Do likewise on the other. Connect them back together as a unit don’t over tighten anything. It will feel right but it is aluminum and you don’t want to warp it. The boots that carbs install to, make sure they are clean , and for now put some Lubraplate on your finger and rub it on the inside of the boots, make sure that the clamps are in place and pop the carbs back in, tighten the clamps so they are nice and cinched. Some carbs have a cable for each carb and some just have on cable to operate both and you would have noticed this at disassembly. In either case set the cable or cables exactly where they came off. Now it is time to open the petcocks to RES and watch for leaks, if you followed the directions there shouldn’t be any. If none, turn on the key after 30 seconds and kick it over. Make sure you are in an open area and the fire extinguisher is handy. Look again for leaks, and kick it again and you’ll likely get a stumble, signs of life, wait 30 seconds, turn the key in and kick it again and quite likely it will start, keep the idle up and rev it to 2500 rpm’s and a little down, you may get stumbles and an unholy amount of smoke but try to keep it running for 15-20 minutes and it will likely smooth out and the smoke will begin to clear. After this shut it down and change the oil, replace the filter. You should have the locations and tools needed there. I have to go to sleep, but I hope it helps. You can now begin your journey… Good Night , Merry Christmas!
 

Oldnwiser

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Well, i was really hoping to get it started and went down some rabbit holes but cant get a spark. Checked the kill switch. Seems to work, but took it apart to make sure. Grounds SEEM to be in order; i have continuity from new negative wire to spots on engine(not entire engine, but threads of spark plug hole i do). Coils seem to test out ok as to resistence(primary and secondary), but will double check that. All new wiring for fuses and fuse holder in place. New battery. Watched the videos and adjusted cam and points. The only thing i didnt do on that front was check timing. I am holding connected spark plug to multiple ground points with no spark. I feel like it will be something obvious, or I am reading resistance wrong, or some other stupid thing. the engine cranks and the pistons go uppy and downy, everything is spinning. No dang spark. Sigh. Thabks for listening to me vent.
You also have a neutral safety switch. There should be a green light when it is in neutral and it should turn off if you place it in gear. The plug goes into the middle of the crankcase. You may need to check it by toggling it from neutral to 1st and back to see if it is working properly.
 
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