No Start - Voltage Drop While Cranking

Yeah, that vintage bike link is where I got that "touch the leads together" tip from. Guess I'll go back through that article and the BB troubleshooting guide. I'll report back what I find. Honestly, I would have gladly paid $100 for a new battery for this to be over.
 
bkellis1 said:
But I could hear a clicking sound, so I continued to do it, and then at least one of the plugs started to spark, but not the other.
Click to expand...
I'm not proficient in BoyerBrasden, but many others here - including Jan - are, so...

That clicking sound can sometimes indicate electrical arcing - even a ground seeking good earth - caused by a faulty connection. So here I am advocating to check, clean and tighten all connections....and - as the starter appears to be drawing big current and the spark don't wanna spark, I'm doubly suspicious of a poor engine case ground without good continuity to battery negative. Of course that's mostly a guess at this point:shrug:
 
Boyer Branden dont give any clicking sound Unless the rotor with the magnets hits the sensor plate on the back or something like that
The fault finding routine in the magazine will find it

Relays gives Clicking sound as in the starter relay

Should there be a short in the Starter ( or somewhere else ) it can pull down the Voltage so the Boyer Dont spark so please check what Voltage there actually is into Boyer box and coils. . 11.5 ish or so the Boyer can check out and start to behave weird.

This is not a Stock wiring but on a stock one can disconnect the wire tot he starter se below and use the kick starter

NOTE
Boyer gives the advice not having ignition on aka Power on for longer times on the Coil .It can get hot and fry according to them
Not happened to me but that is their recommendation at least on some of theirs ignitions


1678965272641.png

doing the fault finding
 
So I started going through the troubleshooting guide again, one side still not firing, and tracked the fault to the resistor cap. Located apparently the last boot in town for this discontinued item, got it installed and started messing with trying to get it to start using the dot thru hole method again. While cranking, the stator plate flexed and the rotor connected with the pickup coil lead. IT'S DEFINITELY BROKE NOW!

Any recommendations for ignition system replacements?
 

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Perhaps optimistic ..but are you sure it is broken ??
Pushing it back and Epoxy ?? . Well since it was not firing ..??

Anyways those can be bought as spare parts
Not sure what it is called

http://www.boyerbransden.com/stator_plates.html
perhaps

STA00157 XS650 YAMAHA XS650 TWIN (75mm, 3" Approx diameter)

They have a support which is rare in this day and age .. Maybe a supplier in USA
 
I could simply replace that one plate for the Boyer, and that would be the most cost effective, assuming that's the only thing in need of replacement. But what if I replace the whole system with something else? I've read on here to stay away from the XS Charge from Mike's. What other options are out there? I've seen the Rawhide cam-driven system but don't have any of the original parts so concerned about needing the rod or other parts like advancer. And then there's the complete Hughs Handbuilt system inclusive of ignition system and the Vape, both pretty pricey considering I already have a PMA installed. Any other cam-driven options to consider that's not junk?
 
Just a suggestion - Tri-Spark
If you search my install thread.
You will be impressed with the thickness of the base plate compared to the Boyer.
I have a boyer on one 650 and a tri-spark on the other.
Both work fine.
I think Tri-spark is more expensive but seems better built.
Regards Ray.
 
Looks like a nice setup. One problem I would run into is not having any of the original parts. When I got the bike, it already had the Boyer installed, so I don't have the original rod or any of it. It just has a piece of all-thread with the Boyer rotor on one side and nuts on the other. Since this is my first XS650, I really don't know what original parts I'm missing from the Boyer conversion or what I'd need to buy to make sometime else work. Guessing at the bare minimum the original rod.
 
bkellis1 said:
Since this is my first XS650, I really don't know what original parts I'm missing from the Boyer conversion or what I'd need to buy to make sometime else work. Guessing at the bare minimum the original rod.
Click to expand...
If it currently has all-thread for the cam (advance) rod, I'd want a original or reproduction rod too and new cam bushings. The reproductions are available from Mike's - seen statements they're a bit long in stock application, so you'll want to properly shim it - with 1/2" ID shims - for clearance on the BB rotor (yours was hitting).

https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs65...m-90386-12093-256-1154-00-93316-00501-00.html
https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs650-auto-advance-rod-ref-256-11156-oem-256-11156-00.html

Here's a couple discussions on installing the BB and advance rod shimming

https://www.xs650.com/threads/boyer-bransden-ignition-1981-yamaha-xs650-sh.48040/

https://www.xs650.com/threads/advance-rod-side-play.28824/
 
I am pretty certain the Boyer Bransden comes with an all thread in the kit.
Cheap and not under massive loads. Only purpose hold the magnet in correct position..

Taking this out of memory I believe there is 2 bushings in the kit

Taking this out of memory again --Yours being a bike that originally had stock electronic ignition your cam inside ends most likely are not machined the same way as the pre 80 bikes .which need / takes a bushing for the stock advance rod. Points ignition.

So even with a cam with machined ends ( inside ) the Boyer installation is possible to get wrong installing. Not the best solid parts I
have myself had the magnetic rotor hitting the pickup plate .Noticing it before starting .
And I turn the plate a little with machine runnig for checking the timing .Blipping the throttle so all is good. I then hear if it hits the plate.

I have not seen how it looks inside post 80 cams Especially not in the US .But there is most likely a greater chance for having movements sideways and then hitting the plate post as you have on your setup.

I don't believe it is possible to smash in a bushing and going to Points ignition without risk the cam cracks

So the rod that mr JP points to might not be usable because the cam inside cannot take the bushing Feel free tto Check since I have not seen how it looks.
 
Just a quick update on this topic...

I've ordered a new stator plate from Boyer and waiting on shipment to the US. I also found a complete points ignition setup including rod on eBay that I bought and also awaiting shipment. Lastly I found some MP08 coils on eBay and bought those too just for good measure - awaiting shipment.

Once parts arrive, I can get back on this project and provide an update.
 
Thanks for the links. I have found both to be extremely helpful. I do have a question about this picture though... With the right-side cam pin hole at the 12 o'clock position, does that indicate that the left side #1 piston is at TDC?

1679657975712.png
 
bkellis1 said:
Thanks for the links. I have found both to be extremely helpful. I do have a question about this picture though... With the right-side cam pin hole at the 12 o'clock position, does that indicate that the left side #1 piston is at TDC?

View attachment 238691
Click to expand...
Yes; on stock 360degree motor, Left is at TDC exhaust and Right is at TDC compression with the cam dowel @ 12 O'clock
 
Jan_P said:
Regarding going to points.. -->
https://www.xs650.com/threads/timing-advance-bushs.30967/

# 6
I'm thinking that the bore in these later cams may not have been finished or sized as exactingly as the earlier ones because Yamaha knew they weren't fitting bushings in there anymore.
Click to expand...
Learning everyday: Thanks Jan, I've not tried to retrofit an advance rod in late-model cam and didn't know there could be an issue:thumbsup:
 
Hey everyone, just wanted to provide an update on this issue to close it out. I finally received the new stator plate from Boyer and after inserting an additional washer behind the plate to push it out more from the rotor, it is no longer rubbing against the solder and I got it to run. Well sort of, and let me explain... since I had touched everything trying to debug this issue including rebuilding the carbs, after it was running I started to perform the dead cylinder method of adjusting the air/fuel mixture, and that's when I discovered the bike is only running on one cylinder. After confirming both plug wires were firing by swapping wires to different plugs, I decided to do a compression test. I only got 105 on the side that is running, but worse yet, only 85 on the non-running side. Then I confirmed with a leak down test that it's leaking past the rings and not intake or exhaust valves. Sounds like it's time for a rebuild!!! That will have to be a different thread.
 

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