Not XS650 but at least a two cylinder motorcycle!

kshansen

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Last fall finally had the ambition and the weather to go for a nice ride around a local lake, tebo would probably know the lake, Skaneateles.

I was on the Harley Sportster/Sidecar outfit wife on her GTV300 Vespa. As I slowed down to make the right off Route 41 on to Route 41A bike skipped and backfires a bit. Thought it might die right there but it did keep running. Told wife through intercom what happend and told her I might have to stop. It kept running just maybe a bit rougher than normal and it kept running the same the 30 miles back home.

I did some basic checks over the next couple days like inspecting spark plugs and looking for loose wires. As it was late in the season and my ambition was a bit low along with being a little discouraged I more or less put off doing much at all for a few months. A few days back decided it was time to do some more troubleshooting.

This time I did a compression test and found that front cylinder was around 90 psi while rear was right around 150 psi. Tried to do a crude leak-down test but due to the lack of easy access to see or hold crankshaft was not sure but it did not seem like any major leaking either from valves or crankcase area.

Knowing there had to be some major problem with that difference in compression decided to bit the bullet and open it up. Started with front cylinder and as soon as I had the head off it was obvious where the problem was so pulled the cylinder and piston. See attached images of front piston:

Piston01.JPG
piston02.JPG


This engine has all of around 7,000 miles on it since back in 2016 when I had a shop rebuild it using Screaming Eagle Heads and Cylinders. I was able to tell from part numbers on pistons that the pistons are actually Wiseco pistons I have contacted them to see if they had any thoughts on what might have caused the failure.

To my surprise after seeing how the piston looked I expected the cylinder bore to be destroyed but the front one looks just as nice as the rear. I even had a good local motorcycle guy inspect it and he said he would at the most do a light hone and reuse it. The heads while roughed up from the bits going through we both agreed that a careful smoothing out keeping away from gasket area should make them serviceable.
 
Well I did get a reply from someone through Wiseco and that person is thinking the motor might have been running lean causing it to run hot and soften the ring land leading to a failure. He want's me to send the piston to him so he can test it to see if the metal has been softened from heat. Said too old for warranty but at least it might help determine the cause of failure. One thing that I might question is the fact that the failure is on the intake side of the piston so I would think the incoming fuel air mixture would help cool the piston. But then I'm no expert on details like that.

For what it would cost I'm thinking it would be worth the shipping price.
 
Holy cripe, hansen! That coulda been a catastrophic failure! :yikes: Thank the two wheel gods you's were able to get back home safely. Lean? Hot? If so, wouldn't your exhaust pipes be all kinds of pretty colors from the heat? Funny how it happened, after you had the overhaul, using "the good stuff"... :umm:
 
Wow! Says a lot for robust, low-tech two-cylinder engines that you were able to ride home. I've never seen a failure like that but on first sight I don't really think weak mixture and over heating caused it - you would expect discoloration and a badly scored piston skirt?

What about the dimples on the piston crown? I guess that's the debris being bounced around in the combustion chamber as you continued. Looks like the top ring played a part in levering the top land upwards?
 
Holy cripe, hansen! That coulda been a catastrophic failure! :yikes: Thank the two wheel gods you's were able to get back home safely. Lean? Hot? If so, wouldn't your exhaust pipes be all kinds of pretty colors from the heat? Funny how it happened, after you had the overhaul, using "the good stuff"... :umm:
And the other thing that has me a bit confused is with this being a single carb engine, why is there no obvious signs of the same damage even starting on the other piston. And if it was a timing issue, why would it only effect one cylinder. It's not an engine like the early XS650 with points where one cylinder could be timed different.
 
And the other thing that has me a bit confused is with this being a single carb engine, why is there no obvious signs of the same damage even starting on the other piston. And if it was a timing issue, why would it only effect one cylinder. It's not an engine like the early XS650 with points where one cylinder could be timed different.
It's a head scratcher from my seat. Perhaps Wiseco will have a revelation for you.
 
It might be wise to check the rear. Historically overheating issues were more prevalent on rear cylinders because of less efficient cooling.
As for aftermarket, considering the basic Sportster began as the K model flat head in 1952, updated to OHV in 1957, it's been around virtually forever with only minor improvements
 
As for aftermarket, considering the basic Sportster began as the K model flat head in 1952, updated to OHV in 1957, it's been around virtually forever with only minor improvements
1643994178286.png

Shadetree Surgeon calls it an heirloom motorcycle. I have no reason to disagree.
 
It might be wise to check the rear. Historically overheating issues were more prevalent on rear cylinders because of less efficient cooling.
Agree and already done that. other than some damage from bits transferring from the damaged front cylinder into the rear cylinder the rear piston looks pretty good. There is one area where the ring groove for the top ring has been distorted from damage on the top of piston to make ring tight but able to be removed without breaking it.
 
First thought is it is some sort of metal fatigue or poor piston casting where the lip is so thin...............if it was an overheating issue i would think it would show a different kind of damage similar to our pistons..............:shrug:
 
And the other thing that has me a bit confused is with this being a single carb engine, why is there no obvious signs of the same damage even starting on the other piston. And if it was a timing issue, why would it only effect one cylinder. It's not an engine like the early XS650 with points where one cylinder could be timed different.
Really odd that the front, normally the cooler of the two, got the damage. I wonder if really bad mixture distribution was happening, with the front getting a lean charge.
 

Piston ring damage​

Material washout in the ring area​



  • Incorrectly installed pistons
  • Fuel flooding
  • Severe axial wear of the ring groove and piston rings
Does that ring fit the groove correctly on the other side of the piston?
 
Well the slightly more than half the ring that is left in the top groove is a bit tight in the groove from the distortion of the top of the piston from bits getting hammered between it and the head. I have not got very aggressive trying to remove it on the chance the person I contacted through Wiseco wants to see it as is was upon removal from engine.

Both pistons were installed with the side marked FWD towards the front of engine.

As I believe I said, the rear piston does not show anything more than some damage from bits transferring from the front cylinder.

Being a single carb engine I'm not sure how one cylinder could be damaged from flooding and the other not showing any problems.

The day this happened bike had done about 30 miles of relatively easy riding with no problems noticed before this happened.
 
As I believe I said, the rear piston does not show anything more than some damage from bits transferring from the front cylinder.
Does that mean that bits of metal travelled back up the inlet tract and through the carburettor en route to raise hell in another city?

I know there's a lot of pulsation of fuel-air mix in the inlets but if that's true, well, that's amazing.
 
Does that mean that bits of metal travelled back up the inlet tract and through the carburettor en route to raise hell in another city?

I know there's a lot of pulsation of fuel-air mix in the inlets but if that's true, well, that's amazing.
Well as there is no damage to the rings of the rear cylinder I not sure what could have caused the marks on the top of rear piston and head if not from piston ring bits from the front cylinder.

Also bits would not have to go through the carb just the short manifold between the two heads.

And judging by the marks on the rear piston the largest bit would have been maybe 1/8 inch long, most much smaller.
 
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