Oil Pump Bolts

peterg

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I managed to break a bolt for my oil pump and stretched out another one using my new torque wrench. Better that than stripping the threads. I can find zinc coated Phillip head and stainless steel button head Allen bolts locally.

Which is my best option?
 

jetmechmarty

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shopping

I used flange hex bolts.
 

Signal

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I am assuming you are talking about the 3 oil pump bolts inside the right engine cover that secure the oil pump to the side cover.
These are in side the engine and bathed in oil normal black cap screws are fine.
Stainless steel and aluminium threads can and often bind, also stainless is not high tensile. If you use stainless use an anti seize.
Is your new torque wrench set correctly?
Just had a thought, you are not talking about the sump bolts are you?
From memory the stock ones are necked to prevent over tightening. I use zinc plated cap screws to replace them. Cap screws are like the engine covers, button screws are shallower and the key tends to slip when they are worn.
 

Mailman

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Five years ago I was having problems installing my oil pump screws with a torque wrench. Small screws going into aluminum and I had oiled the threads ( I know I know you should torque bolts dry ) anyways before I even reached the torque setting the screws felt like they were stripping. I stopped at that point , removed the screws and examined the threads, which looked ok, but still worried me. Had they been really stripped, I would’ve heli coiled the threads. As it was, I determined that the holes were deeper than the length of the stock bolts, so I purchased some longer button head screws, cleaned out the threads really good with carburetor cleaner, and applied a little blue locktite to the new screws and this time I hand tightened them until good and snug and left the torque wrench in the drawer!
Here’s the whole saga if you’re bored, skip to the last page to see the fix.
https://www.xs650.com/threads/questions-about-my-oil-pump.50852/
 

peterg

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Thanks!

Signal. Yes, the 3 oil pump bolts inside the right cover. My wrench was set correctly but I haven’t used a torque wrench for 5 years so I’m back to being a complete novice. I must have gone past the setting without realizing it.

I also worked on the sump filter and cover. I just snugged down the 3 bolts holding the filter in place and installed the 6 cover bolts to specs without issue.

Mailman. I looked at your thread and will go the hand tight/locktite route! I’ll measure the depths of the holes and see if 22mm bolts will work. I have a few I took off the bike when I removed something redundant (can’t remember what).
 

kshansen

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Thanks!

Signal. Yes, the 3 oil pump bolts inside the right cover. My wrench was set correctly but I haven’t used a torque wrench for 5 years so I’m back to being a complete novice. I must have gone past the setting without realizing it.

Any chance you got Foot Pounds mixed up with Inch Pounds? One other thing is at low settings some torque wrenches, especially if being used at the low end of scale, can be hard to feel the clicking. That is if it is a claick type wrench.

I'd suggest testing it on some much larger bolts but set at the setting for the oil pump bolts to see if you can feel the indication of the torque it is set for. Don't be in a hurry pull nice and slow and smooth!
 

bosco659

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Any chance you got Foot Pounds mixed up with Inch Pounds? One other thing is at low settings some torque wrenches, especially if being used at the low end of scale, can be hard to feel the clicking. That is if it is a claick type wrench.

I'd suggest testing it on some much larger bolts but set at the setting for the oil pump bolts to see if you can feel the indication of the torque it is set for. Don't be in a hurry pull nice and slow and smooth!

Agreed, at the low end of the scale the click can be difficult to detect and I have also questioned the accuracy of torque wrenches, at the very bottom of their range. For low torque applications I use a dial type wrench with a lower ranged scale. Similar to this (with a different torque range). I’ve stripped small 6mm bolts in aluminum using a bigger wrench.
4B213971-484C-4039-A7CA-7370E874F40F.png
 
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grizld1

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With any instrument, accuracy diminishes toward both extremes of the range. That's why at least two torque wrenches are needed to work on these machines. Re. lubrication, sure, it makes a difference, but don't assume that all specs assume dry threads. For example the factory manual specifies lubrication for top end fasteners.
 

jetmechmarty

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the factory manual specifies
This is key. The assumption is clean dry threads if nothing is specified. (My Moto Guzzi manual stated in the front of the book that all specified torque values are lube torque.) Reading through the Factory Service Manual isn't a bad idea.
 

Jan_P

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Short Comments
Phillips head screws should be Outlawed. more or less
Torque wrenches I did not have them for many years sometimes I used Fishing scales and other tricks
And after a while one gets a feel for how much it should be
Nowadays I have two One 1/4 inch and one 1/2 Inch
I sometimes set them wrong and then check with a spanner of the type I am used too .And then critically look at the setting.
When I use them I always set them in steps so the click release functions happens at a lower torque
60 % 80 % 100 % so The wrench is working
I do believe that a Proper use of the torque wrench is a factor on motorcycles The correct tightening pattern
carefully -- one can reduce the gasket cement and chemicals .More on modern bikes that can have thinner walls / material
And surprisingly getting a leak free installation. Jaw dropping :Not being expected on " Low budget " bikes
An expert don't need them so Much but I have to admit that although I believed I was reasonable right on it been doing it for many years
I get better results with the Torque wrench . Again more so with thinner walled things
Worth to mention is also the need for re tightening at times
And yes the Manual .. I usually put oil on things but if the manual has other instructions that rules.
 

5twins

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Yes, you need at least 2, but 3 is even better. You need a small one in inch/lbs for the little fasteners. You want it to top out between 150 and 250 inch/lbs. That way, at about 70 to 80 inch/lbs for an M6 fastener, you'll be running in the middle of the range. I find I use this one the most. Next, you'll need a "midrange" one, spanning from about 10 to around 75 ft/lbs. You'll use this for most of the other fasteners on the bike. Then finally, you'll need a big one that goes up to like 150 ft/lbs. This won't get used much but is needed for things like axle nuts and the countershaft sprocket nut.

Some things I use a torque wrench on religiously (M6 case screws, caliper and disc mounts), others not so much (axle nuts, oil drain plugs, spark plugs). I found the single torque value given in my '78 shop manual for the axles rather silly. How can you expect the cotter pin holes to align when you reach that value? Right, you can't. So, I always just made them very tight. Eventually, I did discover a better torque chart, one that gave all the values in ranges. It's the one from the '77 supplemental manual, and the one I use for most everything now .....

UwdyxX1.jpg


Using this, I have now checked my axle nuts and found I have been meeting at least the minimum given spec.
 
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