ONE STEP FORWARD TWO STEPS BACK... CONFUSION AT ITS BEST.

[willerd8]

yo guys, first time poster here... bought my first xs650 beginning of summer, I love riding it... when it works.
Let me start by saying thanks to everyone whose posted questions and answers, its helped me go very far with my cafe/brat project.
I have a 1980 xs650 (I believe its SG/G)
Mikesxs performance carbs
new wiring harness from mikes xs
tour max solid state regulator rectifier
OEM right and left handle bar switch control
OEM 7" headlight , prism taillight (fucking sweet tail light), and aftermarket signal flashers (not stock)
Attached but not installed, e-advancer electronic ignition from mikes xs. its on my bike currently but not set up. using the stock ignition system now because I couldn't figure out the e-advancer for the life of me.
Shorai battery

The other week I decided to take her on a trip to White Plains NY, I reside on eastern Long Island (a two hour ride)... Broke down on the long island express way about 30 minutes into my ride. I brought my volt meter with me... Took off my seat to access the battery box... Battery voltage was at 6 volts, waited for a second policeman to bring jumper cables, jumped my bike from his police car (police car was off)... went back up to 12 volts, great!... As soon as I kick started the bike, battery drained very quickly. Long story short, got her towed back to my place.
Now, that was when I had a separate regulator and rectifier. The next day I was able to troubleshoot a bit and figure out what the hell was going on. I realized with my regulator detached voltage levels were good and battery wasn't being drained. I figured this was a perfect time to install my R/R combo from mikes xs.

Heres where things get really funny. Ive checked out just about every single diagram there is to figure out how to convert my set up to work with the regulator rectifier combo (R/R combo), even videos.. for the most part they're very self explanatory. after hooking it all up accordingly I noticed many un-used wires (previously used from the separate regulator)- a gray wire, red/yellow wire (from headlight fuse), blue/black. I go to start my bike (kick start, starter button hasn't been working recently) and my headlight and dash lights (tacho and speedo) aren't working (however, I routed the wires from the speedo to indicate which flasher I'm using (turn right-flasher light flashes, turn left oil light flashes)) and those ARE working, just not the back light in the displays. So since I'd like to have a headlight, I routed the red/yellow wire from the headlight fuse all the way up into my headlight bucket and connect it to high beam (now I have high beam as soon as I turn the key on. I'll also add that before I installed the R/R combo, my headlight was working and I also by-passed the reserve lighting unit by connect blue/black to blue/red or which ever wires they were (however I by-passed the reserve lighting unit it worked).. until I switched the old R and R with the new R/R solid state combo...

By the way, the system seems to be charging when I rev the engine but doesn't go above 13.80volts. also did the slap test against the side cover and the metal magnetized when I turned on the key switch.

So I started from basics----No voltage at high or low beam headlight,( flashers and horn work perfectly though) the six plug connector from my harness to my left handlebar switch seems funny to me. Out of the six wires, 2 of them have 12+ volts, the yellow/red only getting 11 volts, the other three, 0. going down further on the bike, I get to the flasher cancelling unit. It seems that from my harness I'm getting 12+ everywhere until we get to the flasher cancelling unit. the yellow/red wire isn't coming out of the flasher cancelling unit with 12+ volts, its around 11 volts. Assuming it was that, I tried to bypass it making a few extra connections but it seems like a lot of things rely on that unit, flasher and horn would not work.
On top of all this, after taking her for a spin today, she seemed to vibrate much much more.

I hope I explained everything thorough enough, I'm sure I left out somethings but I'll definitely have answers if y'all need more info. This bike has been a never ending struggle, I fucking love it when she's working well but hate it when I get stuck on something stupid, which is usually the case. However the learning process is very beneficial for me cause I love learning about this bike but can't stand it when I'm scratching my head 90 percent of the time trying to figure out what the hell is wrong.

Thanks for all the help in advance! I'll try to get some pictures up too
Also, if any one here is from Long Island or know of a good xs650 mechanic around here please let me know. I'd like to bring mine to a good mechanic to see if my "do it yourself" work has had an affect on the bike, positively or negatively.
thanks again dudes

 

[650Skull]

I will start with identifing the bike.........state it is an 80SG/G........Mention you had a separate regulator and rectifier.......

Visually an 80G is completely different to an 80SG........
80G............................................. 80SG

80G has hinged seat, metal side-covers, Spoke wheels and different taillight set up as the most visually different things..........

80G/SG have BS3 carbs and factory electronic ignition, (TCI), No points or advance weights........NOTE;.....Has a Solid State combined Reg/Rect

Visually a 79 Special II is exacly the same as an 80G
79 SII

79SII has a hinged seat, metal side-covers, Spoke wheels taillight set up on the rear of the rear Guard...........Same as 80G

79SII has BS8 Carbs Points ignition with advance weights...........NOTE....Has a separate Regulator and rectifier.......

Again need to identify your bike and ask the question.... WHY did my bike have a separate Regulator and rectifier.......??

Please post your Engine and Frame Vin no's so we can make sure the bike is what you think it is.........

I have highlighted for the importance of these differences due to there being so much confusion surrounding the crossover and changes between the 79SII and the 80G...........Once these differences have been established then it will be easier to diagnose and help with the problems your having

 

[willerd8]

Thanks for your response: Frame vin number is 2F0- 218258

 

[650Skull]

Thats an 80SG vin no........

Still confused why the bike had a separate regulator and rectifier..................Is the motor an 80SG as well??........does the bike have points ignition??..........Please answer both questions

 

[fredintoon]

Hi willerd and welcome,
let us know exactly what your bike is like Skull asks so we can advise you better.
But I can tell you right now that the "usual suspect" in the bike's troubles is all that low quality
aftermarket stuff from MikesXS.
The list consensus is that Mikes is only OK for stuff that ain't carbs, electrical or made out of rubber.

 

[5twins]

I'm thinking you removed your starter/headlight safety relay thinking it was a regulator or rectifier. That's where the extra red/yellow and blue/black wires came from and that's why your headlight stopped working. I don't think the starter will work either without it, at least not without jumping some wires.

 

[willerd8]

Well I'm assuming its an 80SG engine, the engine is TCI ignition, not points... The extra red/yellow wire was attached to the separate regulator, now that Ive installed the solid state combo I have a few extra wires one of them being the red/yellow (went into the seperate regulator- comes out of the fuse box as the headlamp fuze)... 5twins, Im pretty sure I didn't get those mixed up, but I am also not the most intelligent being on the planet. I have removed the reserve lighting device and bypassed it to where the headlight was still working before I removed the separate regulator and rectifier, now that I have a solid state combo the headlight, tach,and speedo are not lighting up, however, flashers and tail/brake work perfectly. Im leading to believe the problem lies in the flasher cancelling unit (5 plug terminal under the gas tank left side next to flasher relay), it appears to me that the live leads that power the headlight, taco,speedo back lights run into the flasher cancelling unit and up into the headlight bucket into the left handlebar control and into the headlight. I get over 12 volts into two of those wires and 11 volts from one. when I opened my handlebar switch (left side) I wasn't getting any volts when I tested the soldered part of the hi/low beam wires, this also leads me to believe it could be those wires in the switch, but my horn and flasher button works.

 

[5twins]

What you're not understanding is that a 1980 model wouldn't have a separate regulator and rectifier, it would have one combined reg/rec unit, similar to the new one you're trying to install. It should have been mounted on the back of the main frame down tube behind the engine. If you removed a component from under the right side cover, which I'm thinking you did, that wasn't a regulator or rectifier, it was your starter/headlight safety relay. On my '78, this is what it looks like. It's the big tin box .....

Yours may have looked slightly different. The large rectangular tin cover was changed on later units to 2 small square tin covers. Here's what that later one looks like .....

 

[willerd8]

5twins, ok now I'm really confused, Ive been under the impression that the unit shown above was the regulator (I have the one with two tin covers), thats the part I removed. So if thats the case, that part must be faulty because it started crapping out on me the other week and would drain my battery

 

[5twins]

How do you know it was crapping out? Many other things can drain your battery. Many times it's just a short in the wiring somewhere. A wire gets rubbed bare (these bikes do vibrate, lol) and grounds out. This thing is just 2 little relays. One cuts power to the starter once the engine is running so it can't be engaged. The other sends power to your headlight and turns it on. I've heard of these things ceasing to function but not of them draining the battery. But to function, they require a voltage signal on the yellow wire from the alternator. If you're not charging, not sending a voltage signal to the relays, they won't do anything.

 

[willerd8]

I figured it was crapping out because when I would detach it from the system and kick start the bike, the battery levels would be normal. when I plugged it back in and turned on the ignition it would drain the battery.

 

[Jim]

Here's my 80SG. Your combination reg/rec is here behind the downtube.

 

[willerd8]

Why does the manual identify the rectangular tin box as voltage regulator if it is not the regulator? Clearly I'm missing something here. I'm aware of the rectifier being attached to the downtube, thats where mine it attached as well, however, the part with the two small box/rectangle tin cube thing is whats throwing me off

 

[Jim]

Not sure what manual you're using. My Yamaha manual calls that the safety relay.... and it calls my regulator/rectifier behind the downtube.... a regulator/rectifier.

 

[5twins]

You may be looking in the wrong section of your manual, the one that pertains to the '79 and older models. They did have a separate regulator and rectifier, and the regulator was a similar looking tin box mounted under the left side cover .....