pamco problems again

triumph68

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i fitted a new PAMCO to my 1980sg got the timing right with a timing wheel but now it will idle but wont rev over 5000 reves so i took it to a bike machanic in brisbane called ELLASPEDE to check it out first thing he showed me was 4 other bikes with PAMCO ignitions and said they are shit and and dont work real well and he was converting these 4 back to point or puting a boyer branson on instead ! has anyone else had this problem ?for the life of me i carnt work out why it will idle but wont rev hard under load .thanks triumph68
 
Never ran a pamco but have run many Power Dynamo ignitions. Even raced one for several years and never had a problem.. Find TDC and lock her down.. easy install and timing..
 
Alot of guys run pamco. Myself included with zero issues and using the e advance. Like anything electronic....shit can happen to any them.

another thing I'll say. installs of pma systems with improper timing marks... wacky voltages ..and shoddy wiring will make for a wonderful running machine.....

I hear a lot of complaints on boyers too like warping back plates.
 
Wonderful as in wonder how they run at all? Scoff
I pretty much just threw a basic pamco at my 71, and runs great. I couldnt get the points right. Im cringing remembering the kick-o-thon before pete donated a pamco.
 
that's what i don't get when i did my research they are meant to be so easy to set up. I put in a new PMA as well so voltage is fine it still does not explain why it wont rev past 5000 revs . could it be a faulty pamco ? or something else thanks triumph68
 
Sounds like you are playing a guessing game. Grab your meter look for some posts on here for testing and check it. Just because you installed a pma doesn't mean the voltage isn't out to lunch. Probably more problems with those as of recent...being Chinese parts mostly when bought as a kit. 100% sure of your timing marks also.
 
i fitted a new PAMCO to my 1980sg got the timing right with a timing wheel but now it will idle but wont rev over 5000 reves so i took it to a bike machanic in brisbane called ELLASPEDE to check it out first thing he showed me was 4 other bikes with PAMCO ignitions and said they are shit and and dont work real well and he was converting these 4 back to point or puting a boyer branson on instead ! has anyone else had this problem ?for the life of me i carnt work out why it will idle but wont rev hard under load .thanks triumph68

1. Which PAMCO do you have?
2. If PMA, then battery or capacitor?
3. Was the bike originally a US TCI engine or points?
4. What octane gas are you using?
5. Which carbs do you have installed?
6. Any mods to the exhaust or air filters?
7. What gear and road speed does the problem occur?
8. What was the most recent work done to the engine besides the PAMCO?
9. Have you tried going up one size for the main jets in the carbs?
10. What is the battery / capacitor voltage at 5,000 RPM?
11. Have the ignition switch and kill switch contacts been cleaned? Ever?
12. What is the altitude where you are?
13. New spark plugs? What type?
14. When you say it won't rev past 5,000 RPM, what does it do? Misses? Backfires?
15. Which coil are you using?
16. Did you do a continuity check from one spark plug cap to the other?
17. Did you check for full advance at 3,200 RPM?
18. Are you using a timing light with a built in preset for the timing?
19. If yes to #18, then set the preset to zero and check the timing again.
20. Timing chain adjusted recently?
21. Valves adjusted recently?
22. Sprocket ratio?
23. Throttle fully opens?

If you installed the PMA at the same time as the PAMCO, then several issues could come into focus:

1. How did you establish the timing marks?
2. Does the rotor of the PMA have a key to the crankshaft?
3. Are you using a battery or a capacitor?
4. What is the battery / capacitor Voltage at 5,000 RPM?
5. If a capacitor, then what is the capacity and brand of capacitor?
There can be issues with the PMA that manifest themselves as ignition problems. One way to split the difference is to temporarily disconnect the PMA regulator and run the ignition from a fully charged battery.

Here is a list of other things to check for lack of fast road speed:

1. Low battery / charging system. A low battery will produce a low ignition voltage at the plugs which is most evident at higher RPM's.
2. Timing. Did you use a timing light to set the timing?
3. Stuck or no advance. When checking the timing with the timing light, did you check for maximum advance at 3,000 RPM.
4. Binding advance rod.
5. Fouled plugs. Did you install new plugs? Check them after you got it running?
6. Plug wire not making contact in the coil. Measure the resistance from plug cap to plug cap to ensure that both plug wires are making contact in the coil.
7. Brakes dragging.
8. Speedo out of calibration. You are actually going faster than 60 MPH! Use your GPS to check the speedo.
9. Tire pressure. Pump up to 32 PSI for high speed.
10. Drive chain too tight. That will rob you of power to the rear wheel.
11. Enricher plunger stuck partially on.
12. Enricher (choke) left on or partially on.
13. Weak or loose advance springs. Weak or loose advance springs cause the advance to use up some of the available movement because you have to essentially retard the advance to get it on the idle advance mark, so there is less movement available at higher RPM's.
14. Timing chain needs adjustment.
15. Cheap or bad gas.
16. Low octane gas.
17. Water in the gas.
18. Partially blocked pet cock or fuel filter.
19. Paper filter that has low flow when the tank is not full.
20. Try a run with a full tank of high octane, fresh, expensive gas.
21. Blocked fuel cap vent.
22. Incorrect sprockets. What RPM are you getting at 60 MPH.
23. Rear tire rubbing on brake rod or swing arm.
24. High wind resistance. Are you a large person?
25. Throttle cable not fully opening the throttles.
26. Blockage in the muffler(s)
27. Dirty or blocked air filters
28. High altitude
29. Very hot air, like 95+F
30. Very cold air, like 32F
31. Low oil
32. Really dirty oil
33. Gas in the oil
34. Weak TCI magnet in rotor. Unplug Reg/Rect to test
35. Cracked carb boots.
36. Hole in carb diaphragm(s)
37. Cheap pods covering air hole in carb inlet
 
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I have run many PAMCO and also Boyer too and never had a problem. If your shop wants you to go back to points maybe he has little experience with electronic ignitions. I just had a GS850 that I did and it would not go over 5500 RPM and it was CARBS not ignition. You could also have bad boots and sucking air at high rev's. Before you trash the ignition I would go over the other parts first. I know Pete stands behind his product and maybe just send it to him to be checked out. But my experience in the past of many builds motor leans out at high RPM's and breaks up for lack of fuel. What do the plugs look like TAN -GREY-BLACK????
 
After answering Petes questions. Are you still using the stock mechanical advance. have you gone through it making sure the springs are good, rod is free advance range is correct? Do you have a key in the PMA keeping the rotor alignment steady with the crank? Have you checked the TDC mark against piston rise and fall so you KNOW it is right?

What carbs, what exhaust, which air filters what jetting, what clip on the needle? Floats, flaot valves known good any intake leaks? What's the compression?

IMHO run don't walk from a shop that is so clueless they can't troubleshoot a simple inexpensive easy to install ignition like the Pamco. There are probably fifty guys on this board that could troubleshoot and have all four of those bikes "sitting over there" running and back on the road in a day "if" it was a pamco install issue.
 
Tie me kangaroo down mate. No problems my Pamco works great. Toss that timing wheel and get a timing light. Your mechanic ELLASPEDE runs a chop shop hope you took it with you.
 
Pete has a lot of supporters, as would be expected if all they've had is good luck. But an easy search also shows a lot of people with no luck, so I guess it depends on which camp you are in. 2 things bother me. 1 is that Pamco is not as simple as it's advertised. Everything has to be perfect, and how many 40 year old bikes fit that description? Pete himself just put up a reply with 65 questions in it. You can't leave the switch on, the charging system can fry it, advance rod, etc. To his credit, he replaces no problem. It seems at times that he doesn't respond unless you openly look for him here on the board. The other thing that bothers me is that if you question the use & reliability of a Pamco his friends pop up immediately with you must be an incompetent boob and it's surely your own doing. Not all of us are mechanically so challenged that we can't run 3 wires, and that's how easy it advertised as being. There's no rocket science in the XS650 system. I got two units from him that... 1. never fired,...and 2. Ran 3 minutes. No overcharging possible as the bike never had a stator on it. I sold the next replacement. Those whining about points can easily have it thrown back in your faces. They are indeed not complicated. They cost a small fraction of a Pamco. They work flawlessly if everything is right (a Pamco requirement). I switched back to points for the simple reason that I felt uneasy after 2 straight bad units, and I can work on points in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere. I have no problem with guys who like their Pamco, just lay off acting like us points guys are all ignorant. I know of one very highly regarded XS650 expert (not using that word lightly) who won't bother with another Pamco. He doesn't come here and offer up his 2 cents because it's not worth it. Maybe the best thing would be a little more truth up front. If you really know your sh*t and are 100% certain of your engines mechanical and charging system, then a Pamco might interest you. Otherwise save your money.
 
I love pamco and have never had a single issue with any of them, and I will continue to use them and recommend them as long as Pete makes them. Like others have said I would be skeptical of someone that says they can't get four bikes running that have pamcos on them. I would go through the carbs and definitely check the mechanical advance unite (if you are running one). Pete is great to work with if you really do have a pamco issue but I would bet money it's not the pamco
 
Color me stupid but AFAIK basic pamco ignitions tend to either work as designed or not work AT ALL, they don't work until rpm X then quit. But if the timing or advance is not right.......
 
i fitted a new PAMCO to my 1980sg got the timing right with a timing wheel but now it will idle but wont rev over 5000 reves so i took it to a bike machanic in brisbane called ELLASPEDE to check it out first thing he showed me was 4 other bikes with PAMCO ignitions and said they are shit and and dont work real well and he was converting these 4 back to point or puting a boyer branson on instead ! has anyone else had this problem ?for the life of me i carnt work out why it will idle but wont rev hard under load .thanks triumph68


No mechanic likes to fix an owners mistake. They, (and i concur as a carpenter), think that if you can't give them the job to do first off they why should they fix someone else's fuck up. Of course he is going to tell you the parts are shit.

I posted in your thread last year and gave you a link to a google map that shows a couple of small old style bike shops in Brisbane. If only for a referal to some other shop thy may be able to help, i'm sure if you had got in touch with them some one could help. Wouldn't trust my bike with those guys you linked to.

Did you ever join the Aus 650 club? Several members in Brisbane who would also be able to help with local knowledge.

A big percentage of Pamco problems posted on here relate to the combination of doing both the Pamco and a PMA at the same time, without isolating when testing. been a lot of problems with the PMA solid state Reg/Rect as well.

If you're getting to 5000 revs the pamco is still working, they either go or stop. no wood-ruff key on a PMA can also cause the unit to slip so the timing would be out.
 
Hey skull I did join the Xs club but found it was not for me . I tried 5 old time bike machanics and none had even heard of a PAMCO ! South east Queensland is a waste land to get anyone to work on a 35 year old bike . So far I've spent over 10 grand on this bike and I've had enough I thought it it would a cheap simple project it turned out to be a money pit
 
DAMN that's a shame you guys have to deal with high prices overseas. Most old bikers like me tend to stay with what they know best but there comes a point that you have to step up and join the new world. I have nothing against points that's all I was use to but had to step up my game to do the new bikes. If you told me I would be standing over a bike with a computer to set it up in the 70's I would have laughed in your face. Many new bikes with crank triggers and on board computers will make you want to go get the gas can and set it on fire and walk away. I have been doing this a long time and if you don't have the parts to check what is good or bad then maybe you need to step back and start over with parts you are confortable with. Putting points back in may not correct problem because now you are using a lower spark less advance system and it may not even get to 4000 rpm before it breaks up. I am not going to speak for any ignition but have used DAYNA PAMCO BOYER and stock TCI setups and all can fail. My very first PAMCO I burned up in the first 10 mins because I never read the directions. I just did a stock bike that the guy was cleaning his bike and has a aftermarket radio on bike but left the kill switch on the on position for two hour while cleaning so he had music but when done bike won't start. DUH pickups burned out.
So if you think this shop is right let them setup the points and see where you are at but my experience has been if timing is correct on electronic ignition anything past 3000 rpm should be advanced going up and working. If this bike was in front of me I would be looking at CARBS / boots and VALVE CLEARNCE.
Good Luck and if your guy needs someone to ask questions always get me at DADDYGCYCLES@YAHOO.COM.:thumbsup:
 
weaselbeak,

"Pete himself just put up a reply with 65 questions in it."

I think that there are only one or two questions that are PAMCO specific, the rest address his problem as he described it because we do not know if the problem is in fact ignition related. He is in Australia, so if I asked the questions one at a time it would take about two months to get his replies due to the time zone difference.

As for the PAMCO questions raised on the forum by members who may be having a problem, I conduct my customer service and warranty replies here on the forum in the open for all to see. I would suggest that you contact my competitors and ask them for all their customer support and warranty Emails to get a better idea of how PAMCO stacks up to others.
 
Hey skull I did join the Xs club but found it was not for me . I tried 5 old time bike machanics and none had even heard of a PAMCO ! South east Queensland is a waste land to get anyone to work on a 35 year old bike . So far I've spent over 10 grand on this bike and I've had enough I thought it it would a cheap simple project it turned out to be a money pit

That's why when you buy old bikes and cars you learn to everything by yourself. Everything. Otherwise you get hosed. Bad. Lesson of the day learned. I have learned from owning my first old bike in 2006...do it all yourself and the job is done right....how I would expect it. And even that being said. Old vehicles sometimes end up being money pits even if you do it yourself.

I think that's why new kawasaki w800 and new triumphs are hot sellers. Nostalgia with e.f.i.
 
weaselbeak,

"Pete himself just put up a reply with 65 questions in it."

I think that there are only one or two questions that are PAMCO specific, the rest address his problem as he described it because we do not know if the problem is in fact ignition related. He is in Australia, so if I asked the questions one at a time it would take about two months to get his replies due to the time zone difference.

As for the PAMCO questions raised on the forum by members who may be having a problem, I conduct my customer service and warranty replies here on the forum in the open for all to see. I would suggest that you contact my competitors and ask them for all their customer support and warranty Emails to get a better idea of how PAMCO stacks up to others.

I was merely pointing out that there is a lot more to using a Pamco than to hook up 3 wires and go, which is how it was presented to me. Other things need to be spot on, as your unit is apparently not very forgiving. My motor ran fine on points, I tried the Pamco for the sake of it's advertised simplicity, as an upgrade. I had no luck. Others like it, YMMV, but the history of this forum is chock full of people who've had problems. I just get tired of your happy buddies insinuating that we're all idiots. The ones you sent me didn't run badly because of installation errors or other bike problems. They didn't work at all. I stand by my personal assessment, I can deal with my points anywhere and at anytime, and they work fine with very little hassle. Replacing them every 2-3 years for 20 bucks is not a problem. I use aftermarket EI on my Moto Guzzi, and have EI on my 850 Suzuki and a pair of Viragos, so I'm not hung up on points. I'm just not sold on your Pamco. You think you have a better deal, fine. Sell on.
 
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