krza
XS650 Member
It’s a 3-phase, it has 3 yellow wires from the stator to the MOSFET regulator.
Sorry everyone, the other two post replies are over my head haha.
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PMA wattage help
- Thread starter krza
- Start date
It’s a 3-phase, it has 3 yellow wires from the stator to the MOSFET regulator.
Sorry everyone, the other two post replies are over my head haha.
Any Possibility post the PMA brand and name type
and regulator type name brand..
Perhaps not a help but sometimes it is .. Here are a lot of experienced people that might even already had the same problem
Also the specifications are usually found online These days .It can help
In the spec the output PMA versus the Regulator capacity would be a first thing to look at.
I don't have experience with this regulator most likely ... but I do know that electronic regulators fry Quickly and can behave
Unpredictable if the physics is to far off. Its spec. As well as other electronic. Can behave strange ..
That is why I suspect overcharging .. The stock one is sneaky .It can look perfect but come the warm day and higher rev
Boing 15 V --- and the electronic ignition stops firing as it should.
And a connected voltmeter would be a good thing
and regulator type name brand..
Perhaps not a help but sometimes it is .. Here are a lot of experienced people that might even already had the same problem
Also the specifications are usually found online These days .It can help
In the spec the output PMA versus the Regulator capacity would be a first thing to look at.
I don't have experience with this regulator most likely ... but I do know that electronic regulators fry Quickly and can behave
Unpredictable if the physics is to far off. Its spec. As well as other electronic. Can behave strange ..
That is why I suspect overcharging .. The stock one is sneaky .It can look perfect but come the warm day and higher rev
Boing 15 V --- and the electronic ignition stops firing as it should.
And a connected voltmeter would be a good thing
krza
XS650 Member
For sure! I bought the PMA from Mikes because Hugh’s Handbuilt has been out of stock forever. I bought the MOSFET from Revival for the same reason.
XSCharge XS650 PMA | Permanent Magnet Alternator
https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs650-xscharge-permanent-magnet-alternator-kit-pma-200-watt.html
LIFEPO4 OPTIMIZED MOSFET, 3-PHASE, PERMANENT MAGNET REGULATOR/RECTIFIER
https://shop.revivalcycles.com/life...3-phase-permanent-magnet-regulator-rectifier/
I am on my way out but a first quick Question
The PMA kit has an regulator rectifier in it
It has a plug and play voltage regulator
So we are on the same Page .. has that one been used ..since it would be working for the PMA
But perhaps for a Larger battery
And if --is it also giving the battery problem. ?
I will read more later but there is mention of
That's right, these can be installed on single phase or three phase systems. Although they are designed for three-phase systems, there is no problem dropping one AC leg and running on a single phase setup. When running as single phase the output rating is reduced by 33%.
Perhaps someone else is quicker but there appears to be INFO leading forward
The PMA kit has an regulator rectifier in it
It has a plug and play voltage regulator
So we are on the same Page .. has that one been used ..since it would be working for the PMA
But perhaps for a Larger battery
And if --is it also giving the battery problem. ?
I will read more later but there is mention of
That's right, these can be installed on single phase or three phase systems. Although they are designed for three-phase systems, there is no problem dropping one AC leg and running on a single phase setup. When running as single phase the output rating is reduced by 33%.
Perhaps someone else is quicker but there appears to be INFO leading forward
krza
XS650 Member
Yes to be clear: I ran the regulator that shipped with the PMA, and it caused problems with the battery due to (what I believe to be) overcharging from high amperage.
I bought the MOSFET because it’s rated to 500W, incorrectly thinking that it shunts off excess amperage. But I think the 500W rating just means it will regulate current to 14.2v and not get too hot or have problems from high wattage stators. Even with the MOSFET, the charging system destroys the battery.
I did see the note about being able to disconnect a leg. What I want to understand is how to do that. Do I need fo ground the stator leg? The regulator leg? Neither? Both?
As I said before, that's highly unlikely. Unless the battery is severely (and repeatedly) drained, the current will never get high enough to damage it. Overcharging from too high a charging voltage is possible, but even that is unlikely to destroy a battery as quick as you say is happening.... unless the charge voltage is up in the 18-20v range. Your regulator is set to 14.2v Have you tested that? With a meter on the battery, rev the bike as high as you're comfortable doing (4-6k). The voltage should never exceed 14.2v Do that and let us know what it's reading?
Disconnecting one leg is going to cut down the alternators output. That may or may not work, but it's not addressing the underlying problem of why are you batteries getting fried? Best to fix the problem than working around it.
krza
XS650 Member
Thank you Jim. Given your note about repeatedly draining the battery, I’m starting to pivot my thinking here. Because it’s a seven amp hour battery and it probably doesn’t have the correct amperage and cold cranking amp‘s in order to run the electric starter, which I’m doing and I probably shouldn’t be, I think maybe that might be the culprit. I might try to put another battery in it and run it kickstart only for a while and see if there are any issues with charging.
Good plan. Your 7AH batt will give you (ballpark) about 50CCA. The starter draws about 45A.... throw the ignition into the mix and you're prolly over 50A's. So you're at or slightly exceeding that batteries capability.
Don't forget to report back to us how it works out kick only. We only get smarter here when we learn the answers. Good luck.
kzra, I think you may be onto the real problem regarding a small battery not handling the current drain of an electric starter. I suggest you do your experiment with a larger battery (or go kick start only) and also take the advice given by several others and fit a voltmeter to your bike so you can better see what is going on. I have a voltmeter fitted and it has alerted me in the past regarding charging misbehavior.
Best of luck.
Best of luck.
Back home .. This can be a tricky one or to Difficult for me
Basically it is a 200 W Alternator ( Big A** )
And a Regulator ( Big A** )
Then we have the system Small and the battery Small.
As I understand it the PMA Works like a Bicycle generator more rev more output
That production has to go somewhere ..It cant go to the system its not consuming it and it cant go to the battery.
It cant take it.
I know to little about these ---if the Regulator can bring down the surplus.
It can be taken down via tricks and extra components ..Provided the Regulator can take the modification
I'm with Jim so far And if the extra components should be used the actual Voltage across the battery and Charging ampere in
Would be important design parameters.
A " Old " battery can take over-current a while don't know of these.
Not read the specs ..But Phenomenology speaking if there are 3 winding's in the stator
And one is not connected to anything open circuit both ends it cant provide any charging.
Please don't do this yet before more Electrically competent persons have spoken.
So we can avoid the Expensive blue smoke.
A voltmeter is much cheaper .. $ 10 --$ 15
Basically it is a 200 W Alternator ( Big A** )
And a Regulator ( Big A** )
Then we have the system Small and the battery Small.
As I understand it the PMA Works like a Bicycle generator more rev more output
That production has to go somewhere ..It cant go to the system its not consuming it and it cant go to the battery.
It cant take it.
I know to little about these ---if the Regulator can bring down the surplus.
It can be taken down via tricks and extra components ..Provided the Regulator can take the modification
I'm with Jim so far And if the extra components should be used the actual Voltage across the battery and Charging ampere in
Would be important design parameters.
A " Old " battery can take over-current a while don't know of these.
Not read the specs ..But Phenomenology speaking if there are 3 winding's in the stator
And one is not connected to anything open circuit both ends it cant provide any charging.
Please don't do this yet before more Electrically competent persons have spoken.
So we can avoid the Expensive blue smoke.
A voltmeter is much cheaper .. $ 10 --$ 15
Well on the website for the Regulator is a Contact form I would test it.
( There is also a wiring link but I cant open it )
Describing the problem .. Depending on what company :But often one is not the first one having the same problem
And my view is that people do help out. Sometimes they don't .
But overall they do ... Cooperate ...And there are rather many XS 650 s out there So it is good business practice Helping out.
The companies I have worked for have had Service departments and ... 95 times of 100 immediately has the answer..
( There is also a wiring link but I cant open it )
Describing the problem .. Depending on what company :But often one is not the first one having the same problem
And my view is that people do help out. Sometimes they don't .
But overall they do ... Cooperate ...And there are rather many XS 650 s out there So it is good business practice Helping out.
The companies I have worked for have had Service departments and ... 95 times of 100 immediately has the answer..
When I installed a Powerdynamo/ VAPE CDI/PMA system on my RD350 some years ago, I wanted to check the actual charging voltage. When using my cheap digital multimeter, I read 18-19 volts. Which made me really concerned, so I asked my electrician buddy to bring his professional grade , true RMS FLUKE multimeter. Which read about 14.3 volts. Same bike, same battery, same PMA and regulator.
So the quality of the voltmeter may have a big influence of the result when checking or troubleshooting these things.
That said, using the electric starter with a 7Ah battery does not seem like a good idea. Deep discharging a battery frequently will shorten its lifetime, and reduce its actual capacity for every deep discharge cycle. And after it is discharged by the starter motor, and the bike is ridden, it will then accept a large charging current, due to its discharged state. Which is not a good thing either. A double whammy of sorts....
So the quality of the voltmeter may have a big influence of the result when checking or troubleshooting these things.
That said, using the electric starter with a 7Ah battery does not seem like a good idea. Deep discharging a battery frequently will shorten its lifetime, and reduce its actual capacity for every deep discharge cycle. And after it is discharged by the starter motor, and the bike is ridden, it will then accept a large charging current, due to its discharged state. Which is not a good thing either. A double whammy of sorts....
Way back in your first post you said minimal electrics and managed to leave out that whole ELECTRIC START thing................
LOL
When they say "drop a leg" in the ad they simply mean you are hooking up two single phase outlet wires instead of three from a three phase, they do not mean disconnecting a powered lead from a 3 phase alternator. In this single phase input configuration you certainly will lose 33% of the reg/rec output simply because it is missing 33% from the input while retaining the same current capacity through the two remaining legs. It is not an instruction of how to modify the reg/rec to produce less power, although I suppose you could do it as long as you put the live lead somewhere safe so it doesn't ground out. This is irrelevant however, since a properly working regulator with the capacity to handle the alternator output should easily maintain the proper output the bike requires without having to resort to jury rigging it. It will either shunt excess power to ground, or turn off the output to the system in a series regulator. Even a cooler running shunt regulator does the stator no favours though, since it is still running at 100% output at all times.
krza
XS650 Member
that’s fair haha.
krza
XS650 Member
Here’s the early update:
I put a test meter on it (two different ones, actually, to be redundant). Set point seems to be sub 14.4 volts, occasionally touches 14.4 but but never above.
Taped it to the tank and rode around. Seems to be holding around 14.2. Will report back!
I put a test meter on it (two different ones, actually, to be redundant). Set point seems to be sub 14.4 volts, occasionally touches 14.4 but but never above.
Taped it to the tank and rode around. Seems to be holding around 14.2. Will report back!
Excellent, the system voltage is in the correct range.
When you first turn the ignition on to start the bike what voltage do you see, probably in the range 12.5 - 13V?
What voltage do you see at 1200rpm idle and 2000rpm fast idle?
Does the voltmeter show the system voltage dropping when you pull up at the lights with the engine idling?
I used to set my idle for 1200rpm so that when stopped at lights with the Always-ON headlight the battery would not drain too much.
When you first turn the ignition on to start the bike what voltage do you see, probably in the range 12.5 - 13V?
What voltage do you see at 1200rpm idle and 2000rpm fast idle?
Does the voltmeter show the system voltage dropping when you pull up at the lights with the engine idling?
I used to set my idle for 1200rpm so that when stopped at lights with the Always-ON headlight the battery would not drain too much.
Just saying ... putting it here ... that if the Voltage checks out a temporary ampere meter is not expensive in comparison to what
rest of the parts cost. PMA / Reg / Battery.
Should one suspect the load at startup to big. And with the then checked Voltage the charging current could be measured..
rest of the parts cost. PMA / Reg / Battery.
Should one suspect the load at startup to big. And with the then checked Voltage the charging current could be measured..
The charging current is depending on the voltage. And of the battery's charge state. With a well maintained battery, and correct charging voltage, the current will be within acceptable limits. If I had the choice between fitting an ammeter or a volt meter, it would be volt meter. Every time..
