Question wiring stator to solid state reg/rec

[D3viousd4n]

3 yellow (or white) to 3 yellow (or white).... providing AC current

The top connector (nylon screw) is ground.... goes to the black wire at the reg/rec

The bottom connector is green. That's rotor power from the reg/rec
**I know the colors don't match the colors on your stator. Just make sure the reg/rec black wire goes to the top terminal and the green from the reg/rec goes to the bottom.**

The blue neutral goes to the neutral switch on the top of the tranny.

The yellow single wire goes to yellow on the bike. That feeds the starter safety relay.

Red to battery pos.

Ok, got the brushes connected then. That leaves me with a loose brown and red wire. In my case I would connect brown to relay, correct? And blue from stator doesn’t need a connection to reg/rec, only to neutral switch?

With that all set, I can splice a grounding wire to the inner brush wire and be good to go?

 

[Jim]

In my case I would connect brown to relay, correct?

Not sure. The MikeXS diagram for that reg/rec doesn't show a brown wire. I'd just leave it disconnected and capped for now. After you run it and see if it works, we'll deal with it then. Mikes diagram shows 6 wires to the reg/rec. I count 7 on your reg/rec, with the brown not accounted for.... dunno.
EDIT: see next comment.

And blue from stator doesn’t need a connection to reg/rec, only to neutral switch?

Correct.

With that all set, I can splice a grounding wire to the inner brush wire and be good to go?

As 5twins pointed out, the brush is normally grounded to the stator. That's not strictly required. A ground is a ground... doesn't matter where it's at. It'll ground on the black back at the reg/rec, so the brush will be grounded. It never hurts to have too many grounds though, so it wouldn't hurt anything to add a ground at the brush. But strictly speaking, it's not necessary.

 

[5twins]

The brown wire from the reg/rec gets connected to a switched power wire in the harness, something that's only powered when the key is on. It runs to the regulator portion of the combined unit and the regulator uses it for power and to monitor the state of the battery. When the battery gets low, the regulator turns up the charging output.

The blue wire doesn't actually reach the stator. It branches out of the harness before that and runs to the neutral switch on top of the motor. And yes, you are correct, it doesn't connect to the reg/rec at the other end. It actually runs up to the neutral light on the dash.

You need to ground both the black wire from the inner brush and the one coming out of the reg/rec. If you look at a wiring diagram of the original set-up with the separate reg and rec, you'll see that both had a ground wire. On your combined unit, the single black ground wire splits inside the unit and provides a ground for each component.

 

[Jim]

EDIT from above. The brown wire is likely switched battery power from the fuse to the regulator side of the reg/rec. There should be a brown going to where the original regulator plugged in. It needs to go there. It's the "battery sense" line.

 

[5twins]

Yes, it appears that MikesXS drawing is wrong, or more correctly, incomplete, because it doesn't show the brown wire. The regulator needs a source of switched power to operate, both for sensing the battery charge and to provide power for it to send out on the green wire when need be.

 

[Jim]

You need to ground both the black wire from the inner brush and the one coming out of the reg/rec. If you look at a wiring diagram of the original set-up with the separate reg and rec, you'll see that both had a ground wire. On your combined unit, the single black ground wire splits inside the unit and provides a ground for each component.

Not to be disagreeable, but as I said, that's not strictly needed. it grounds at the regulator.
Power runs into one brush, across the rotor and out the other brush... up the black wire to the regulator where it grounds, completing the circuit. Doesn't hurt to add an extra ground (like the factory did), but the black wire by itself will supply the ground.

 

[D3viousd4n]

EDIT from above. The brown wire is likely switched battery power from the fuse to the regulator side of the reg/rec. There should be a brown going to where the original regulator plugged in. It needs to go there. It's the "battery sense" line.

Yes, it appears that MikesXS drawing is wrong, or more correctly, incomplete, because it doesn't show the brown wire. The regulator needs a source of switched power to operate, both for sensing the battery charge and to provide power for it to send out on the green wire when need be.

Got it. I’ll take a look at the harness and follow up. Thank you both for all the help.

 

[650Skull]

This is for wiring in a combined solid state reg/rect for a points model XS650.

MikesXS 70 -79 instructions, (His Tech page) are for the later 80-84 charging system. EDIT: he has added wiring instructions to the site page. Better but wires are still wrong

There are/were different wiring colours on the SS reg/rectifiers. This link goes into this

https://www.xs650.com/threads/wiring-in-a-70-79-combined-reg-rect-to-all-points-model-xs650s.52339/

 

[650Skull]

If you have the 70-79 brushes, it would make sense and less confusion to buy the 70-79 brush holder and put it on your stater. The difference between the 70-79 and 80-84 stater is the brush holder and how the brushes are wired in.

 

[D3viousd4n]

This is for wiring in a combined solid state reg/rect for a points model XS650.

MikesXS 70 -79 instructions are for the later 80-84 charging system.

There are/were different wiring colours on the SS reg/rectifiers. This link goes into this

https://www.xs650.com/threads/wiring-in-a-70-79-combined-reg-rect-to-all-points-model-xs650s.52339/

The wiring diagram in this link makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks for this.

 

[D3viousd4n]

If you have the 70-79 brushes, it would make sense and less confusion to buy the 70-79 brush holder and put it on your stater. The difference between the 70-79 and 80-84 stater is the brush holder and how the brushes are wired in.

What makes you say that? Just for the sake of having continuity between parts or to have that extra ground at the outer brush? The impression I’m getting is it isn’t 100% necessary

 

[650Skull]

The wiring diagram in this link makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks for this.

Glad it helps

What makes you say that? Just for the sake of having continuity between parts or to have that extra ground at the outer brush? The impression I’m getting is it isn’t 100% necessary

Less confusion. Not understanding the difference between an A and B type regulator......... Makes everything a factory set up, again easier to learn wiring for your bike.

Doing a nylon screw mod works but only if using a combination of 70-79 and 80-84 parts. Again if this last paragraph is confusing refer to first paragraph

 

[5twins]

OK, what I meant by him needing to ground both black wires, the one from the inner brush and the one from the reg/rec (in post #23), is that in his situation, with the inner brush not grounded to the stator housing because of the nylon screws used to mount it, he can't just connect the two blacks together. There would be no ground source then. And that would make the rectifier not function as well because it needs a ground. So, he at least needs to ground the black coming out of the reg/rec. Then he can tie the brush black wire into that, or ground it on it's own. But I think what you're saying Jim is that the black wire from the brush needs to run back to the regulator to complete the circuit? That it can't just be grounded on it's own and not be connected back to the regulator? Wouldn't just grounding the brush on it's own complete the circuit because the regulator is also grounded to the same ground source (the frame)?

 

[Jim]

But I think what you're saying Jim is that the black wire from the brush needs to run back to the regulator to complete the circuit? That it can't just be grounded on it's own and not be connected back to the regulator?

No, I'm saying either will work. All we need is a complete circuit back to battery ground. How we get there isn't important... just that we complete the circuit.
1) Ground the brush at the stator (like factory) and the stator grounds to the engine, the engine grounds to the frame... the frame grounds to the batt negative. Current flows through the rotor.

2) black wire connected to the brush runs back to the regulator, which is grounded to the frame, that grounds to the batt negative. Current flow through the rotor.

3) OEM.... Black wire back to regulator AND ground the brush to the stator..... either/or path will lead back to the batt negative. Current flows through the rotor.

Any one of those 3 will work. It's a ground... it doesn't care HOW it gets back to the negative terminal... just that it does.

 

[D3viousd4n]

No, I'm saying either will work. All we need is a complete circuit back to battery ground. How we get there isn't important... just that we complete the circuit.
1) Ground the brush at the stator (like factory) and the stator grounds to the engine, the engine grounds to the frame... the frame grounds to the batt negative. Current flows through the rotor.

2) black wire connected to the brush runs back to the regulator, which is grounded to the frame, that grounds to the batt negative. Current flow through the rotor.

3) OEM.... Black wire back to regulator AND ground the brush to the stator..... either/or path will lead back to the batt negative. Current flows through the rotor.

Any one of those 3 will work. It's a ground... it doesn't care HOW it gets back to the negative terminal... just that it does.

If I wanted to go with option 3, would I need a new brush housing or could I just replace the nylon screws with generic metal ones?

 

[Jim]

If I wanted to go with option 3, would I need a new brush housing or could I just replace the nylon screws with generic metal ones?

That is a '70 to '79 brush housing, no need to replace it. Yes, replace the nylon screw(s) with a metal one... now it's grounded just like it was when it left the factory. If you wanted "exactly" like factory, replace all 3 nylons.

Don't recall the screw size... M4 or M5 I think.

 

[5twins]

Just make sure the screws aren't too long. If they stick out the back of the stator much they can hit the rotor and really mess it up.

 

[Jim]

Just make sure the screws aren't too long. If they stick out the back of the stator much they can hit the rotor and really mess it up.

Yes!! I know of quiet a few rotors that were ruined by putting too long screws in there. Don't go more than one thread past flush on the inside... or this can happen.

 

[5twins]

Here's a labeled pic, courtesy of Jim I think ......

 

[Jim]

Yes, that was mine... but it's for the '80 - '83 brushes. Don't really know if the earlier brush block and stator are the same. Be interesting to find out...