Real Estate Update

[Mikey]

It would require breaking up the concrete floor to do in-floor heating which is not impossible, but a slightly messy job. My existing garage has an overhead-mounted natural gas heater unit with a pretty powerful circulating fan. The unit is thermostatically controlled and warms the garage (about 27'x25' with a high ceiling) up to a working temp in about 10 minutes (see photo). Having more fans in the ceiling to spread the warm air around is also very helpful.

An installation like that shown below should not be too expensive, nor will it cost much to operate, as long as you don't open the big garage door too often.

View attachment 222980

View attachment 222981

Based on my experience of last winter, you really need to heat it up to only about 60-63 deg. F (say about 16-17C) - as you are up walking around and working and are always fully clothed out there (at least....I am.....). If you are going to sit on your bum in the garage during the winter, you'd likely need it to be a tad warmer IMO.

Pete

That's pretty much the setup I have now and it works great but....
If your sitting or laying on the floor you better have some carpeting to lay down first or it gets a tad chilly
And I don't always keep the heat on unless I'm going to be out there
But the south facing windows and solar collectors help too

 

[Mikey]

And I wasn't smart enough to put down insulation before the slab was poured

 

[bosco659]

That's pretty much the setup I have now and it works great but....
If your sitting or laying on the floor you better have some carpeting to lay down first or it gets a tad chilly
And I don't always keep the heat on unless I'm going to be out there
But the south facing windows and solar collectors help too

Are you fully insulated?

 

[Mikey]

With the exception of the floor yes fiberglass in the walls and r60 cellulose in the ceiling and I insulated interior walls to areas I don't heat or cool lawn mower / snowblower storage area /tool room
So instead of heating a 24x36 I'm only heating a 24x24 I figure I can always open up a door if I think I need to warm it up
And I have an overhead door on each side so the warm side never has to be opened up to get a snowblower out

 

[bosco659]

How many btu are the garage heaters you have Mikey and Pete?

 

[MaxPete]

I’m not sure Vic - but the adverts for these things usually have a buyer's guide with the ratings. The differences between “too small”, “just right” and “too big” aren’t much in terms of cost. Also, a “too big” unit will not have to run as long to heat the place up - so for occasional use, that might be the way to go.

The rule of thumb in my ASHRAE guide is 25-30 BTU/sf so my barn will be about 800 x 30 = 24,000 BTU. I’d guess the garage is around that size - perhaps a bit smaller. Again, having ceiling fans to circulate the hot air is a key thing.

Pete

 

[Exploding Coffin Emporium]

That’s an awesome setup Pete. We’re finishing up our pole barn in Mauston, WI. We ended up going with geothermal for heating/cooling, propane setup, and solar farm going in next year. The property is about 30 acres in total, lots of room to play.

 

[GLJ]

Nope - no water in the building. The complications of drainage and tying into the septic bed are just too tough around here and it is only 24' to the house so when I have to "drain the dragon", I'll just come inside.

Pete
Just something to think about. Figure where you would want a toilet if you were to have one. Then have the appropriate stuff for it and water put in the floor and capped outside the building and inside. That way down the road if you decide to put in a bathroom it will be a lot cheaper. With heat in the floor you don't want to have to do any concrete work to it.
That's what I did when I built my shop. I planned to wait 3 or 4 years to put in the toilet. Shortly after finishing the shop I decide not to wait. It was not cheap to get hooked into my sewer line but worth every penny, I have no regrets on the money spent. Also nice to have a sink with water when cleaning parts.
Adult beverages can cause a lot of trips to the house.

 

[kshansen]

Agree that it's always better to plan for a possible modification even if not going to be used right now. Really wish someone had suggested in floor heat or at the least under slab insulation when I was building my garage back i n 1984! One thing I did do is insulate the walls and celling, 4 inches fiberglass in walls and 6 inches in celling.

Another couple things I did was to install switched outlets for celling lamps and un-switched outlets for garage door openers. Also as garage was built to be the size of a three car garage but only having two overhead doors I did include a header and studs supporting it for a third overhead door on the chance I might want to install a third one some day, even has the outlet wired up for the opener if and when I went that route.

Also did run 220 volt power over to one side just in case and that worked out good as I was given a 220 volt compressor a couple years later. Then when we got a new electric stove for the house the old one found a place in the garage/shop next to the compressor.

One added benefit to the 220 power out in the garage is when power goes out due to a downed tree. I can just throw breaker at the main panel in the house and crank up the gas generator and plug it into the receptacle in the garage and we are ready to go with power everywhere until we get the all clear from power company.

 

[MaxPete]

That’s an awesome setup Pete. We’re finishing up our pole barn in Mauston, WI. We ended up going with geothermal for heating/cooling, propane setup, and solar farm going in next year. The property is about 30 acres in total, lots of room to play.
View attachment 223011View attachment 223012View attachment 223013View attachment 223014

Hey Exploding - great to hear from you! That is a very nice looking shop you are doing there!

QUESTION: right now, it appears that the roof trusses and steel roof panels are all that is above the floor - are you going to put a ceiling in it - and will it be insulated?

Good thoughts on the toilet / water question guys, but quite honestly, the environmental (emphasis on the "mental") regs in my particular locale are so difficult that the effort would far outstrip the results. Sad, but true.

Pete

 

[Exploding Coffin Emporium]

Hey Pete, great to hear from ya, I’ve been off the forum for a bit, pursuit of a bachelors which I started my last semester this week, and working the healthcare grind. We’re doing a metal ceiling and then blowing in insulation. The walls are already insulated and the sheetrock will be going up on them soon.

 

[MaxPete]

We’re doing a metal ceiling and then blowing in insulation.

Yup - zackley the same here. I am going to get the ceiling put up by the same folks who did the barn construction and siding (I don't like working overhead).

What degree are you working on?

Pete

 

[Exploding Coffin Emporium]

Yup - zackley the same here. I am going to get the ceiling put up by the same folks who did the barn construction and siding (I don't like working overhead).

What degree are you working on?

Pete

Finally getting around to finishing my bachelors in nursing. It’s a lot of superfluous bullshit to be honest and enhances my nursing practice by zero but it’s a necessary step for advancing in certain specialities or career paths. Eventually, if I feel so inclined, I may pursue a masters, but being almost 2 decades deep in nursing has already ground me to a stump in certain regards and I already question how much energy I have left to expend in the healthcare game. I still work my ass off to do good by my patients, that’s always been my passion, but the politics and business end of it has a way of chewing you up over the years.

 

[Mikey]

45'000 btu
I need to put a few rubber washers on it because it can be a bit buzzy

 

[MaxPete]

Finally getting around to finishing my bachelors in nursing. It’s a lot of superfluous bullshit to be honest and enhances my nursing practice by zero but it’s a necessary step for advancing in certain specialities or career paths. Eventually, if I feel so inclined, I may pursue a masters, but being almost 2 decades deep in nursing has already ground me to a stump in certain regards and I already question how much energy I have left to expend in the healthcare game. I still work my ass off to do good by my patients, that’s always been my passion, but the politics and business end of it has a way of chewing you up over the years.

Good for you. My Mum and sister were nurses. Society is so fortunate to have strong, dedicated folks doing that very tough job.

Thanks for your service and keep on going with that degree. I know that it likely seems like a lot of baloney much of the time, but if I may, you could look at it this way: it will open the door to new roles that will enable you to help more people and yet, continue to use your education, training and valuable experience.

 

[MaxPete]

45'000 btu
I need to put a few rubber washers on it because it can be a bit buzzyView attachment 222989View attachment 222989

Mikey: I am pretty sure that is the same size unit, if not precisely the same unit - that is in my garage.

It works super.

Pete

 

[Mikey]

Mikey: I am pretty sure that is the same size unit, if not precisely the same unit - that is in my garage.

It works super.

Pete

It heats up quickly for me although when the sun goes down I have to turn it up a bit to maintain the temperature I want

 

[MaxPete]

Hokey dokey sportsfans: after a few days hiatus, the boys are back working on the pole barn.

This morning, the excavation folks arrived with their machine and began digging out the sod and topsoil down to a depth of about a foot or so. They will then lay-in about 5-6" of fine gravel/sand which was delivered by a tandem-axle dump truck earlier today. That material will be carefully leveled and tamped after the topsoil is removed.



I am pretty happy that they aren't chewing up the lawn too badly - even though they've put a tandem axle dump truck going back and forth across it a few times. I guess we'll see how a concrete mixer truck works out....

Tomorrow, the in-floor heating chap will come and lay down 2" of styrofoam insulation on the gravel/sand surface and he will install the network of heating pipes (in three circuits or "zones") and he will also bring the natural gas service out from the house to the barn. Then he will install the boiler (it is about the size of a small coffee maker) and the circulating pump - all on a board screwed to the inside of the barn structure.. The electrician will come at the same time and put the service in from the house and he will install one duplex 110v receptacle, so that I will have some power and lights out there. I will complete the wiring myself later.

The excavation guys will come back later this week and lay a steel mesh down overtop of the heating pipes prior to placing a 4" concrete cap on the floor and power-troweling it to ensure a slight down grade out the front door for drainage. They will also pour an 8' x 8' concrete pad in front of the overhead door (so that when I pull up on my bike and had to get off to open the door, the sidstand doesn't sink into the ground) and they will make a 2' wide sidewalk along the front and down the side of the building toward the man-door and a 4' x 4' pad in front of the man-door.

After that - the construction guys will come back and put-in a steel ceiling and I'll have insulation blown-in up there to help with the heating bill in the winter. I will also insulate the walls (myself) with fibreglas bats and I will do the inside wall panelling (not quite sure what I will use for paneling in there but I don't do drywall and I want it to be easy to install at reasonable cost and it needs to be fairly robust.

...suggestions anyone?

I'd like to have done more of this stuff myself, but I am starting a busy new job on Thursday this week and I know that I wouldn't get it done in any sort of reasonable time.

Pete

 

[Adamc]

Hokey dokey sportsfans: after a few days hiatus, the boys are back working on the pole barn.

This morning, the excavation folks arrived with their machine and began digging out the sod and topsoil down to a depth of about a foot or so. They will then lay-in about 5-6" of fine gravel/sand which was delivered by a tandem-axle dump truck earlier today. That material will be carefully leveled and tamped after the topsoil is removed.

View attachment 223525View attachment 223526View attachment 223527View attachment 223528View attachment 223529View attachment 223530View attachment 223531View attachment 223532

I am pretty happy that they aren't chewing up the lawn too badly - even though they've put a tandem axle dump truck going back and forth across it a few times. I guess we'll see how a concrete mixer truck works out....

Tomorrow, the in-floor heating chap will come and lay down 2" of styrofoam insulation on the gravel/sand surface and he will install the network of heating pipes (in three circuits or "zones") and he will also bring the natural gas service out from the house to the barn. Then he will install the boiler (it is about the size of a small coffee maker) and the circulating pump - all on a board screwed to the inside of the barn structure.. The electrician will come at the same time and put the service in from the house and he will install one duplex 110v receptacle, so that I will have some power and lights out there. I will complete the wiring myself later.

The excavation guys will come back later this week and lay a steel mesh down overtop of the heating pipes prior to placing a 4" concrete cap on the floor and power-troweling it to ensure a slight down grade out the front door for drainage. They will also pour an 8' x 8' concrete pad in front of the overhead door (so that when I pull up on my bike and had to get off to open the door, the sidstand doesn't sink into the ground) and they will make a 2' wide sidewalk along the front and down the side of the building toward the man-door and a 4' x 4' pad in front of the man-door.

After that - the construction guys will come back and put-in a steel ceiling and I'll have insulation blown-in up there to help with the heating bill in the winter. I will also insulate the walls (myself) with fibreglas bats and I will do the inside wall panelling (not quite sure what I will use for paneling in there but I don't do drywall and I want it to be easy to install at reasonable cost and it needs to be fairly robust.

...suggestions anyone?

I'd like to have done more of this stuff myself, but I am starting a busy new job on Thursday this week and I know that I wouldn't get it done in any sort of reasonable time.

Pete

Nice work on the new 'shed' Pete.
Good luck with the new job too!

 

[jpdevol]

I'll likely do drywall, but I have been considering this PVC product:

https://trusscore.com/blog/superior-drywall-alternatives-for-your-garage-walls.html