Stalling at idle after hot highway ride

[Its been a long time]

So obviously I contacted VAPE, since this is a production related issue. These are not bolts that I or any end user needs to touch during installation.

Today I got the official response from VAPE, they will not accept the claim, because the production date of the parts > 2 years (according to them).

Funny that I bought this set 1 year ago. Apparently the shelf live is an issue for the end user. Nevertheless it's a ridiculous reaction, it's obvious that they don't really value the end user and just want to sell products.

Thanks for that information. I like to spend my money with companies who stand behind their product. Even a 50% discount might have been acceptable, but to completely reject your warranty claim is terrible. It's a clear production failure. Bolts specified and tightened properly just do not come lose randomly.

Other people might want to consider this when planning to buy an expensive PMA conversion.

 

[Raymond]

I think your video should make it clear the lose bolt is a production issue not a fitting error You don't want people to conclude the mayhem was caused by you failing to tighten that bolt. My tuppence worth . . .

 

[Grimly]

So obviously I contacted VAPE, since this is a production related issue. These are not bolts that I or any end user needs to touch during installation.

Today I got the official response from VAPE, they will not accept the claim, because the production date of the parts > 2 years (according to them).

Funny that I bought this set 1 year ago. Apparently the shelf live is an issue for the end user. Nevertheless it's a ridiculous reaction, it's obvious that they don't really value the end user and just want to sell products.

What a shower of scum. I certainly won't be buying anything from them.

 

[AUTOMAN]

Allen head button screws are not production.

Why did you say they were?

Does not a Vape need the stator and rotor swap?
and if a 270° it is special.

What is "production" specs?

 

[Bjorn]

I think your video should make it clear the lose bolt is a production issue not a fitting error You don't want people to conclude the mayhem was caused by you failing to tighten that bolt. My tuppence worth . . .

Thanks for sharing your point of view. Its in the description. But maybe not clear enough?

I made this video originally for VAPE to see whats going on. But believe its improtant to see for users what can happen if you dont appy loctite. Since they dont in their factory...So its both a warning and an insight of what you are getting in to if you buy their system.

 

[Bjorn]

Allen head button screws are not production.

Why did you say they were?

Does not a Vape need the stator and rotor swap?
and if a 270° it is special.

What is "production" specs?

This needs more explaining I dont understand.

The allen head button screws are original from VAPE.

 

[Dunc]

I'd better check the 3 that I have here fitted up. I'll Loctite & torque them.

 

[Jan_P]

Also nervous I had a 20 A fuse burn Monday night but not the 30 A charging fuse
On my DIY PMA

But since I did this recently I remember I had 3 screws holding the stater
I can only see 2 on your pictures One loose

 

[Bjorn]

Yes the 360 alternator uses 3 screws to hold the stator in place. This 277 set uses the same backing plate, however only 2/3 are used. This is because this set has an additional "pick up" because of the different firing order.

Both my screws are loose! one completely out, the upper one loose but still engaged (only because its kept in place by a blob of plastic.......)

 

[Its been a long time]

Yes the 360 alternator uses 3 screws to hold the stator in place. This 277 set uses the same backing plate, however only 2/3 are used. This is because this set has an additional "pick up" because of the different firing order.

Both my screws are loose! one completely out, the upper one loose but still engaged (only because its kept in place by a blob of plastic.......)

So, if I'm understanding correctly - Vape accommodate the extra pick up by deleting 1 out of the 3 retaining screws? And there's no other change to compensate for losing 1/3rd of the security of that part? That's absolutely terrible.

It's not very surprising that the remaining 2 screws failed to hold everything together safely.

 

[Grimly]

It's not very surprising that the remaining 2 screws failed to hold everything together safely.

I've noticed a few of these PMA conversions only use two backing plate screws, which has always struck me as just not enough, and a terrible shonky way of doing things.
Why, it's like the makers have only just discovered how to use tools and have no real experience of things breaking or getting loose.
Neophytes and fecking amateurs.

 

[Its been a long time]

I've noticed a few of these PMA conversions only use two backing plate screws, which has always struck me as just not enough, and a terrible shonky way of doing things.
Why, it's like the makers have only just discovered how to use tools and have no real experience of things breaking or getting loose.
Neophytes and fecking amateurs.

I'd hope for better, at the prices being charged. Anyway, I'm perfectly happy with the stock system updated with modern electronics.

 

[Jan_P]

If there is no locking chemical on the 2 screws I think there is grounds to contact Vape again
Questioning the reason needing less clamping force just because one more pickup.
Reducing 1/3 clamping force and having it clamped on one side.

This is good information coming out about bad Practice :If we are getting correct information here
More or less Disqualifying this solution
VAPE have good reputation .And if they want to keep it Stonewalling is not the way forward

 

[AUTOMAN]

This needs more explaining I dont understand.

The allen head button screws are original from VAPE.

Define "production".
Define" So obviously I contacted VAPE, since this is a production related issue. These are not bolts that I or any end user needs to touch during installation."
VAPE "production" are you kidding?

They cannot afford to warranty anything.

 

[Bjorn]

So, if I'm understanding correctly - Vape accommodate the extra pick up by deleting 1 out of the 3 retaining screws? And there's no other change to compensate for losing 1/3rd of the security of that part? That's absolutely terrible.

It's not very surprising that the remaining 2 screws failed to hold everything together safely.

Correct, however there is the central Boss, its a protrusion in the alu backing plate that falls into the central hole of the stator winding assembly.

I personally find the OEM solution by Yamaha the best, with the dowel pins + screws. The 360° vape with central protrusions and 3 screws a good second. This 277° kit is cool and all, but clearly more like a prototype then fully developed solution. But it's what I'm running, just have to make the best out of it.

 

[Bjorn]

Define "production".
Define" So obviously I contacted VAPE, since this is a production related issue. These are not bolts that I or any end user needs to touch during installation."
VAPE "production" are you kidding?

They cannot afford to warranty anything.

"Production" is the place where these ignition sets are assembled. Being in the industry myself I know what it takes to set up a reliable process. In this instance they should use torque controlled tools for making the screw connections. And if you want to prevent a assembly worker from forgetting to apply loctite, you buy screws that have it pre-fitted. Some example of steps you can take. Just depends on how far you want to go.

This is the big difference between aftermarket parts and OEM. Aftermarket CAN be good, but the amount of requirements from a OEM like Yamaha towards their suppliers is probably much higher. Especially with modern equipment.

How are you so convinced they "cannot warranty anything" and why?

 

[AUTOMAN]

"Production" is the place where these ignition sets are assembled. Being in the industry myself I know what it takes to set up a reliable process. In this instance they should use torque controlled tools for making the screw connections. And if you want to prevent a assembly worker from forgetting to apply loctite, you buy screws that have it pre-fitted. Some example of steps you can take. Just depends on how far you want to go.

This is the big difference between aftermarket parts and OEM. Aftermarket CAN be good, but the amount of requirements from a OEM like Yamaha towards their suppliers is probably much higher. Especially with modern equipment.

How are you so convinced they "cannot warranty anything" and why?

Cheap chinese s.s. hex drive button head screws are "production" from china.
Zero engineering on how they get used and by assembly methods.

When they do warranty it, I will apologize.

 

[Bjorn]

I think we are talkin about diffent subjects.

The bolts did not fail, its the connection. The bolts are undamaged. besides they are steel, not SS.

Nothing wrong with button heads. Agreed they cannot hold as much as normal hex or allen. But this is not a high load construction.