Starter shaft deletion

[lumbee]

I think I know the answer to this but just wanted to confirm before moving forward with reassembling the engine.

Just some history real quick, I'm building a chopper (this is my 2nd xs650 chopper) and I got a disassembled engine with the frame. After inventorying all the parts I began reassembly. I just put the cases together and was about to install the clutch when I noticed the starter shaft laying in the box of parts. I was planning to delete the starter anyway, so I just wanted to be sure there is no issue with leaving all the starter components out of the engine when reassembling it; including the starter shaft and two gears.

Side note, I'm using the Haynes manual and I can't find any reference to the starter shaft in the reassembly steps. Glad I'm not planning to use the starter because I'd be beside myself if I had to split the cases again to get the large starter gear back in the case. Curious if I might have missed the starter shaft as part of the reassembly steps in the Haynes manual. If anyone has one the manual wants to prove me wrong, please do. That seems like a critical step as you have to insert the starter shaft and large gear in the lower half before rejoining the cases.

Thanks!

 

[gggGary]

That's fine 'cept more than one startershaft deleter has

When they realized an electric start is kinda nice to have.

 

[timbeck]

I am definitely in the " I realized an electric start is kinda nice to have" group.......

tim

 

[Signal]

So am I

 

[arcticXS]

That's fine 'cept more than one startershaft deleter has

When they realized an electric start is kinda nice to have.

I am definitely in the " I realized an electric start is kinda nice to have" group.......

tim

So am I

If weight saving is the main goal for a starter removal, some weight savings can be achieved by using a LiPoFe battery. I have a "Super B 5200" , now renamed "Super B Andrena" on my XS, and it is plenty strong enough to run the starter. I still have the OEM alternator on my XS, but I also use a smaller Super B on my RD350 which has a Powedynamo (Vape) Pma/ cdi setup. I have not had any issues at all over a number of years with these batteries.
The battery on my XS weighs around 2 lbs/ 0.9 kg. A stock size lead acid battery is 4 to 5 times heavier. So 3 to 4 kg/ around 8 lbs to be saved by just swapping the battery.

 

[gggGary]

To the chilton manual not mentioning reinstalling the starter shaft. A normal overhaul/transmission work does not require removal of the shaft. Usually comes out only for some deep level of case cleaning or someone that doesn't plan to use the starter again.

 

[lumbee]

Well I noticed the shift fork guide bar also laying in the box yesterday So the cases are going to have come back apart anyway. I'll go ahead and put the starter shaft back in while I'm in there.

 

[RustiePyles]

If weight saving is the main goal for a starter removal,

The most weight I ever shaved off my bike was laying off the beer and BBQ for while. I shaved about 40lbs of ALL my bikes and had more money for motorcycle parts...

 

[lumbee]

Went out at lunchtime ready to split the cases and after removing the clutch basket and such, I actually can insert the shift fork guide bar in from the right side, but after doing that, the shift drum won't seem to come out far enough for me to insert the half-moon shaped plate next to it. You know it needs to come out enough for that plate to fit in the groove in the drum. Any suggestions? I'd really like to not have to split the cases again.

 

[Jim]

Wooops....

 

[lumbee]

Nah...I just stole that image from the interwebs (actually I think it's from this site). My spring is not broken.

 

[Jim]

Nah...I just stole that image from the interwebs (actually I think it's from this site). My spring is not broken.

Whew....
If the drum is trying to engage some gear dogs and the holes aren't lined up, the drum is going to be forced one direction or the other. Try rotating one of the tranny shafts while you push/pull on the drum.... let the dogs engage and take tension off the drum.

 

[lumbee]

Whew....
If the drum is trying to engage some gear dogs and the holes aren't lined up, the drum is going to be forced one direction or the other. Try rotating one of the tranny shafts while you push/pull on the drum.... let the dogs engage and take tension off the drum.

Can that be done (rotating tranny shafts) without the cases being split?

 

[gggGary]

A little unclear on this
"shift fork guide bar" #16? Don't think you are going to be able to just "slide that in" and have the tranny work...

 

[Jim]

Can that be done (rotating tranny shafts) without the cases being split?

The shaft the clutch came off of. Grab it with thumb and finger... rotate.

 

[lumbee]

A little unclear on this
"shift fork guide bar" #16? Don't think you are going to be able to just "slide that in" and have the tranny work...
View attachment 201374

That's the question...I didn't think so either...but seems to go in OK with some massaging, and it doesn't need to engage with anything internally so

The shaft the clutch came off of. Grab it with thumb and finger... rotate.

View attachment 201377

Gotcha, yeah, I was doing that a bit and it wasn't helping. I'm wondering if the drum needs to be in a particular position.

 

[gggGary]

The usual drill is; the entire transmission gets assembled into the top case while it's sitting upside down on a work table, then shafts are turned and tranny is shifted through all the gears a time or two to confirm clearances, everything is good. THEN the bottom case goes on.

 

[Jim]

I'm wondering if the drum needs to be in a particular position.

Dunno... I've always installed the drum before I add the tranny and set the cases together. Honestly don't know if what you want is even doable.
Try rotating the drum to neutral. That will unload any side to side loading.

 

[lumbee]

No worries, I'll give it another go this evening and if it doesn't look like it'll happen I'll go ahead and split the cases. Just hate having to throw away all the time I put into laying down a nice neat coat of sealer and torquing all the bolts and such.

 

[Jim]

Gotcha, yeah, I was doing that a bit and it wasn't helping. I'm wondering if the drum needs to be in a particular position.

If a dog is loaded up against another gear, both shafts might be rotating together. Try holding the drive shaft (sprocket goes there) still while rotating the countershaft (clutch one)... get some movement between the two.