Starter won't turn over but horn works... Help

nh-jk

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Hey guys, took the bike out for a ride after building it for a few weeks. Bike ran great, new lithium battery, started fine drove around the block a few times and it started to run shitty.... Thought I was out of gas.... Turns out to be a charging issue I think. Bike would not idle right and would stall if I tried to take it out of neutral.

Charged the battery, then something in my battery box touched metal and made a spark... Has happened a few times when I bump the wrench or something. So I charged the battery and it's at 13.1 volts on a multi meter.

Now when o push start, nothing happens, I thought it was a bad connection so I adjusted the controls, the horn works but the starter will not turn or make noise... I checked the glass fuses and they're fine....

Any ideas?
 

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Hi nh-jk,
dunno about modern-tech batteries and the XS650's old-fashioned charging system.
Lotsa posts about "my candy-assed newfangled battery is effed up."
Nary a one that says that about the old fashioned acid-filled box of lead slabs though.
And how fine are those glass tubes really?
Sometimes they look good but ain't.
 
I swapped out a glass tube where the metal parts touched and sparked... Nothing still... I have the same battery many on here have used before with out issue....
 
Nice looking bike...

A few questions: Did your starter button work before? I see your bars are painted...is there continuity with regard to ground going to them? I would assume so, but I can't recall if the horn has a dedicated ground wire or not. (Ultimately, the starter button needs to be grounded at the handle bars to work.)

The most common issues I've seen (Although I've only had 2 XS's so likely lots of other variables exist) is grounding issues at the button, kill switch issues, fuses, and finally starter motor issues (Mine recently filled with oil due to a bad seal)...I've never had a bad relay, but that could be just lucky?

Quick test for the starter motor:

Put bike in neutral, take a jumper wire from the positive side of your battery to the starter's positive connector (you'll need to push back the rubber boot under starter motor under the bike)... if the starter motor works, it will spin.

If it cranks, the issue is likely with the starter button/kills switch, relay, or connections/fuses to the relay.

There are a few threads on this, but essentially, the button grounds out the circuit. If the handlebars are grounded, there's a metal tab on the starter button housing that connects to the button. When you press button, it connects to a blue/white wire (If I recall the color correctly) sending the ground to the relay and you'll hear a click (at the relay).

Test the grounds at the button...there should be ground continuity at the metal tab going to the button inside the housing... Then when you press the button, there should be continuity to the blue/white wire and that goes all the way to the relay. If you have continuity through that at the relay, and the starter spins with the jumper test above, then my vote would be to move on to check the kill switch connections as well as the relay connections.

Good luck.
 
Thanks brass neck, the starter worked fine until the battery died. I sanded down the bars to metal when I got them, I'll double check.... I was hoping it was a blown fuse but they all look fine. Anyone know what fuse supports the starter? Tail light and head light turn on when I try to kick it over, but it won't start. Always fired right up first/second kick before...
 
Had a few minutes before work today. I sanded down the entire area around the hand control. It's bare metal, I didn't have time to jump the starter, but I'll try again tomorrow. Pushed the start button with fresh contact on the metal and still nothing...
 
I popped the black cap with the green wire coming off it, the ground wire was not on the metal screw after popping the cap, I connected a wire from the positive terminal to the little screw, nothing happened? Should the starter have spun? Does the ground wire need to be on while I try jumping it from the positive battery terminal? The left hand control seems to be grounded as the horn works, but the right hand control nothing...
 
I'm not sure what cap/green wire you're referring to... Are you talking about the left control housing? Take some pics to help us see what you're looking at.

Speaking of pics, here's a few pics of the stater motor and starter relay to make sure we're talking about the same thing. This is off of a '79 special, but I don't think the starter components varied all that much (not sure what year your bike is)

Starter Relay:
full


From this angle, it's the square box/thing with two Black boots covering the two thick black wires. You can also see a blue/white wire and a red/white wire running to it.

The two big black wires are essentially "positive" wires. One goes to your positive terminal on your battery (Left boot/wire in the pic). The other goes directly to your starter motor (Right boot/wire pic).

The Blue/white is the ground coming from your starter button. The red/white is power and comes from your starter kill switch.

Here's a pic of a starter motor:
full


Your starter motor doesn't have a ground wire...it's grounded to the frame by the 4 bolts holding it in. The one wire you see is the one that goes to the relay in the above pic. As you can see the wire is black...and it has another boot covering the terminal bolts.

Here's the starter as it sits under your engine:
full

You can just make out the boot covering the positive wire.

Do you have a multimeter? If so, lets do some basic things first (If not, you can still test with a simple 12v test light and you'll need to connect one end to the positive on your battery, while you probe the handlebars, etc):

1) check that your handlebars are grounded. (On my multimeter it beeps when there's continuity...yours may also?) I'm guessing the bars are grounded, since you said it worked before, right? But perhaps the battery fried something or shorted out a wire? Better to rule out anything as it's really simple to check.

If they are grounded, then chances are the button is also grounding as it's suppose to... but let's test it. Go to that relay (like in the pic)... with the starter button pressed, the blue soldered connection should now be grounded, and your multimeter will detect continuity (Or with a test light, connect one end to the positive of the battery and touch the other end to the soldered blue/white wire connection at the relay...the light should come on). If it's grounding, meaning you have continuity/or test light comes on, then you should do the same continuity test but for the positives.

2) So key on, starter kill switch on (as if you're starting the bike)...you should now have power to the red/white wire on the relay. You can test this with your multimeter (positive batter connection to red/white soldered connection on the relay). Or with a test light, touch the soldered red/white wire at the relay and touch any part of the bike that's grounded (from/bolt, etc)...the light should come on.

If either of these tests don't work, then you have an issue at the starter switch (button or kill switch...whichever didn't work...and if it's the kill switch, we'll need to trace it to the fuses, etc.) If they did work, then you know your starter button/switch are good. What's still suspect is the relay, and the starter motor. There are several ways we can test these...and I'll go through a few, to keep it short. :)

What should happen with the relay is when the key is on, kill switch is on (like you're going to start the bike) and you press the starter button, your relay should make a "click" sound as it activates and sends direct positive current (From the left boot/wire which comes straight from your battery) to the wire going to the starter motor (Right boot/wire).

3) Test for continuity for left boot & right boot at the relay. Simply touch the positive battery terminal and the left boot (Pull the boot off)--It should be positive all the time as it's essentially an extension of the positive terminal; For the right boot, key on, kill switch on, and press the starter button-- at the same time--touch the right boot/wire (pull boot off). So to recap, the right boot/wire should have power when the starter button is pressed. If it doesn't...then your relay is bad. And we know this because we already determined that the starter button is sending a ground to the relay, and the kill switch is sending power when the key is on, and the kill switch is on.

If you have power at the relay via the above test, then we need to test your starter motor.

3) The quickest way (PUT BIKE IN NEUTRAL) is to take a jumper wire from the positive terminal on the battery, and connect the other end to a screwdriver --pull back the boot at the starter motor (under the bike) and touch it (Probably get a few sparks fyi) but if the starter motor spins, your motor is fine. If it doesn't spin, your starter has an issue.

Another way without crawling under the bike is to simply jump the left boot/wire and the right boot/wire at the relay (You can just use a screwdriver and touch both terminals on the relay...same thing, the motor will either spin or not.

OK, hopefully this made some sense?
 
Your handlebars aren't typically grounded unless you have run a ground wire to them. They are rubber mounted

Yep, but typically this is established via the left-hand controls which has a ground wire on it, grounding the bars.

Since he said it worked prior, I would assume the ground is still there.
 
With your symptoms I think it's on the power side of the starter relay. The relay gets it's power on the red/white wire. It gets it's power off the ignition fuse. The fuse with the red/white wires. It may look good but the wire inside can be burnt down inside the end caps. Or just be loose. If you have a multi-meter set in on a low ohm scale.
Pull the fuse and check the ohms of the fuse.
Check all your fuses this way.
On the clips that hold the fuses. They get weak and you loose connections. I would suggest you swap them for more modern blade type fuses. Either inline holders or a fuse block.
Use your multi-meter on the 20 volt DC scale. With the key on check voltage at the red/white wires on the fuse. With the fuse out one side should be hot. The other not. Put in the fuse. Now both sides should be hot.
If so then the next place to check is in the headlight bucket. Locate the wire bundle coming down from the right side controls. The wires you are looking for are the red/whites. With key on, engine stop switch off. Back probe the plug at the wires. One should have power, the other not. Flip the engine stop switch to run. Now the other wire should be hot too. If not pull the control housing off. Carefully remove the engine stop switch, clean it.
This should get power on to the next things.
Coil or coils, safety relay, after the safety relay power flows to the TCI and the starter relay.
Back at the fuses if you don't have power on the red/white wire. It may be the key switch.
Power flows from the battery to the main fuse on a red wire, from the main fuse up to the key switch on a red wire. From the switch back to the fuse box on a brown wire, where it splits and feeds all three other fuses. If you key switch is dirty it can cause problems downstream. It can be taken apart and cleaned.
Leo
 
You guys are so awesome! I found the problem after trying everything, cleaning everything, checking every ground, checking every terminal, every wire! The sob previous owner before me hid an inline fuse I didn't know about. It was in a long black cylindrical cap, sure as shit. That fuse was blown, fired right up. Check the volts at rev, it was at 14 volts, what should it be at to charge properly?
 
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