Still not starting.....

[TPR]

Hi All

I am new to these bikes, so please bare with me!

I have refitted the advance retard to my '79 special and it won't start. Someone in an earlier post suggested that it might be out by 180. The pins line up as they are in the attachment. I have taken the cam out to check the lobe (bike was running fine) and that looked fine.

Probably overlooked something really basic?

Many thanks

 

[Jan_P]

I would also check if any spark whatsoever taking a plug out and ground it .Se if there is spark at all.

 

[Jim]

Quick and dirty way to check for 180° out with the points cam...

Swap the plug leads, if it runs, then the advance rod/points cam is 180° out

 

[TPR]

I would also check if any spark whatsoever taking a plug out and ground it .Se if there is spark at all.

Hi Jan, it has spark and fuel

 

[Jan_P]

Are we talking the electric starter with points here or Kick Starter .with points
If a bit weak battery the starter is using to much power leaving nothing or to weak power for the points and spark.

And try Mr Jims there in post # 3 he mostly have it right

 

[TPR]

Are we talking the electric starter with points here or Kick Starter .with points
If a bit weak battery the starter is using to much power leaving nothing or to weak power for the points and spark.

And try Mr Jims there in post # 3 he mostly have it right

nothing is happening with both ways of starting. I will check outs Mr Jims idea.
How do I sort out the 180 degree out? I am pretty sure that's the issue as the bike was running great until I took the advance off.

 

[Tiggertoo]

If it is 180 degrees out, then it is because of the Advance unit pin being fitted in the opposite side. The pin can be fitted in both sides of the rod, you must make sure that it is in the same side as the one on the points side (red line in first pic below). When it is correct the lines marked on the advance plate and rotor/disc should be close to lining up (red circles below). If its 180 out the line on the rotor/disc will be pointing away from the one on the back plate.

 

[TPR]

If it is 180 degrees out, then it is because of the Advance unit pin being fitted in the opposite side. The pin can be fitted in both sides of the rod, you must make sure that it is in the same side as the one on the points side (red line in first pic below). When it is correct the lines marked on the advance plate and rotor/disc should be close to lining up (red circles below). If its 180 out the line on the rotor/disc will be pointing away from the one on the back plate.

View attachment 359274View attachment 359275

Thanks Tigertoo, I will have another look tomorrow

 

[TPR]

Thanks Tigertoo, I will have another look tomorrow

the pins are in the correct place, and the lines line up and it is still not starting after fully charging the battery.
It was running and starting great prior to this. I have fuel and I have spark.

 

[Tiggertoo]

Looking at your last two threads I see that you have; replaced the Cam Seal behind the retard housing, refitted the retard unit and checked it is oriented correctly, removed/refitted the points cam. You have confirmed plugs are sparking (both sides?) and getting fuel to the plugs, I don't see how compression would have changed so it should start providing you have compression, fuel and spark at the correct time.
You have not mentioned yet whether you have checked the timing is still set up properly. I would suggest double checking the cam belt tension, points gaps and doing a static timing check next, - this should be good enough to get it started so you can then fine tune the timing with a strobe light.

 

[Jan_P]

the pins are in the correct place, and the lines line up and it is still not starting after fully charging the battery.
It was running and starting great prior to this. I have fuel and I have spark.

Not read through has Mr Jims Wireflipping been tested ?
Experiment instead of thinking
Nothing in any cylinder coughing backfiring poff in the Carburetor ?

Machine not speaking at all.

Maybe this have been tested .But plug out turn the engine so pistons is up at TDC
I use a small wood stick look where the ignition marks on the Alternator is
Please report back .

 

[TPR]

Not read through has Mr Jims Wireflipping been tested ?
Experiment instead of thinking
Nothing in any cylinder coughing backfiring poff in the Carburetor ?

Machine not speaking at all.

Maybe this have been tested .But plug out turn the engine so pistons is up at TDC
I use a small wood stick look where the ignition marks on the Alternator is
Please report back .

There was a one or two tiny pops when I first started it, but the pops stopped and it just turns over.
I will check TDC. Thanks

Looking at your last two threads I see that you have; replaced the Cam Seal behind the retard housing, refitted the retard unit and checked it is oriented correctly, removed/refitted the points cam. You have confirmed plugs are sparking (both sides?) and getting fuel to the plugs, I don't see how compression would have changed so it should start providing you have compression, fuel and spark at the correct time.
You have not mentioned yet whether you have checked the timing is still set up properly. I would suggest double checking the cam belt tension, points gaps and doing a static timing check next, - this should be good enough to get it started so you can then fine tune the timing with a strobe light.

Thanks Tigertoo, It is sparking on both sides, I will check the points etc.
Many thanks

 

[Jan_P]

With fuel and spark and igniting around TDC .. at compression stroke something should Poff
Be careful if kick starting it can kick back
If plugs are dry choke on if wet choke off.
You could consider to move ignition timing in small steps

 

[YamadudeXS650C]

Your plugs might be fouled by now. Try a new set of plugs.

 

[TPR]

A bit of a result here.

I swapped the leads over and she ran fine!!

- thanks for that pointer and to all that have helped with this so far- much appreciated.

Hopefully one last newbee question regarding this now that she runs with the leads crossed over:

How do I get it back to running without the plugs crossed over?

Thank you for your patience.....

 

[Jim]

A bit of a result here.

I swapped the leads over and she ran fine!!

- thanks for that pointer and to all that have helped with this so far- much appreciated.

Hopefully one last newbee question regarding this now that she runs with the leads crossed over:

How do I get it back to running without the plugs crossed over?

Thank you for your patience.....

That was suggested almost a week ago...

 

[Jan_P]

Sometimes one does not se it .And taking a break or have someone else coming with input
can make a change.
At the end the wires was swapped over.
Some people never do it trying to create reality themselves
A week is nothing in that sense .. Main thing it is running a Result
Could have happened sooner but again a week is nothing to speak off.

 

[Jim]

nothing is happening with both ways of starting. I will check outs Mr Jims idea.
How do I sort out the 180 degree out? I am pretty sure that's the issue as the bike was running great until I took the advance off.

There's your answer. You took the advance apart and when you reassembled it, the bike wouldn't run... ergo, you reinstalled something backwards... 180° out from what it should be. Time to take the advance back apart and figure out what's backwards.

 

[Jan_P]

There's your answer. You took the advance apart and when you reassembled it, the bike wouldn't run... ergo, you reinstalled something backwards... 180° out from what it should be. Time to take the advance back apart and figure out what's backwards.

Been a while since I had points but is it not possible flip the wires coming from the points

 

[Tiggertoo]

I think we need to see pics of the points & Advance unit.