Swapping from PMA to stock charging (part 2)

[Its been a long time]

Any idea whether I should (re?)connect the black wires out of the switch? I’ve noticed no problems with the ignition switch, I’m assuming it’s a if it ain’t broke situation

Here's the instruction sheet for the XS650 Boyer Bransden ignition. System. Link -

http://boyerbransden.com/pdf/KIT103.pdf

 

[Its been a long time]

Unfortunately there’s no locating pin on my bike. I remember reading somewhere that they are sometimes removed when installing a PMA. Anyway, I can line up the housing to where the pin ought to be, but I can’t tap it on so that the tabs are flush. It also seems misaligned to the bolt holes this way.

I almost wonder if I’m just over-torquing the screws? It looks like only the brushes are contacting the rotor, I can’t visualize where the housing is/would be rubbing…

If I screw it on the the mounting screws are just snug, the rotor seems to rotate normally and I have maybe a 2-3mm gap between the tabs

To set the ignition timing statically on the Boyer Bransden ignition the stock rotor/stator timing marks are used. If that's not going to be possible or reliable then you'll have to use a timing disc on the crankshaft. But it sounds to me like you're a way off that just now.

 

[D3viousd4n]

Think you’re onto something @Jim stator housing looks seated much better without the rotor on. Mounting screws also seat well after a little shaving.

Perhaps my brushed are installed improperly? As in they’re protruding further then they should towards the rotor?

 

[Its been a long time]

Think you’re onto something @Jim stator housing looks seated much better without the rotor on. Mounting screws also seat well after a little shaving.

Perhaps my brushed are installed improperly? As in they’re protruding further then they should towards the rotor?

There should be a LOT of travel on the brushes. The springs keep the brushes in contact with the rotor. I can't imagine brushes being an issue really.

 

[D3viousd4n]

Should the woodruff key be completely flush to the crankshaft? Could this be the culprit?

 

[Its been a long time]

Should the woodruff key be completely flush to the crankshaft? Could this be the culprit?

Looks correct to me.

 

[Its been a long time]

Is that where the stator locating pin should be? If it is, I'd definitely be looking at refitting say a roll pin in there and shortening it to correct length.

 

[Jim]

Think you’re onto something @Jim stator housing looks seated much better without the rotor on. Mounting screws also seat well after a little shaving.

Perhaps my brushed are installed improperly? As in they’re protruding further then they should towards the rotor?

Should the woodruff key be completely flush to the crankshaft? Could this be the culprit?

That looks correct. Try this....
Install the rotor with the woodruff key and measure how far it (the rotor) protrudes. Then remove the key and reinstall the rotor and see if it still protrudes the same amount. That'll tell us if it's an interference problem.

Also... spin the crank and see if it wobbles... make sure the crank isn't bent.

Is that where the stator locating pin should be? If it is, I'd definitely be looking at refitting say a roll pin in there and shortening it to correct length.

View attachment 336658

Agreed.

 

[D3viousd4n]

I figured it out. Seems like I wasn’t fitting it on square. Didn’t realize there were more than just the 3 tabs and I think I was cramming the housing up against one of the tabs I couldn’t see. Suppose it wouldn’t be the first time if I didn’t make stupid mistakes lol

Anyway, the housing looks completely seated now and the rotor spins with expected resistance. I’ve wired everything from the reg to the harness. I’m just going to route the stator cables through and then hook up a battery. Hopefully it doesn’t burst into flames. Assuming it doesn’t, any tests I should run at this point?

Also, correct me if I’m wrong here. I’m assuming the bike won’t stand a chance to start, as the ignition timing will be completely out of whack, so I won’t be able to see if I am in fact charging just yet.

 

[Its been a long time]

Crankshaft run out check is a very good idea. Factory limit is only 0.0012"

 

[Jim]

I’m assuming the bike won’t stand a chance to start, as the ignition timing will be completely out of whack,

The Boyer Bransden (BB) ignition is cam triggered. If we assume you haven't touched it, it should still be in time and hopefully, runnable. That of course, assumes the PO correctly timed it in the first place.

and the rotor spins with expected resistance.

Can you explain what you mean here? You shouldn't feel any change in resistance. The brush springs are very weak... not enough to be felt at the rotor. Was there an increase in resistance when you installed the rotor... 'cause that's a problem if there is.

 

[D3viousd4n]

Can you explain what you mean here? You shouldn't feel any change in resistance. The brush springs are very weak... not enough to be felt at the rotor. Was there an increase in resistance when you installed the rotor... 'cause that's a problem if there is.

This was a bad way to describe the compression of the engine, which is what I meant.

The Boyer Bransden (BB) ignition is cam triggered. If we assume you haven't touched it, it should still be in time and hopefully, runnable. That of course, assumes the PO correctly timed it in the first place.

Awesome, bike starts and idles just as before! It is charging but seemingly inadequately. I’m getting readings of 12.4 volts at idle and 13.1 at ~3000 rpm. Didn’t test any higher. This isn’t enough juice, right?

 

[Jim]

12.4V at idle is normal, 13ish at 3K is a little weak. Should be at 14V or slightly above. On the bright side though, it is charging.
I'll vouch for the rotor and stator. That leaves wiring and/or the reg/rec. Just speaking for myself, I have a natural distrust of anything with MikesXS' name attached. Do you have another reg/rec you can swap in?

 

[Jim]

From the Tech menu...

https://www.xs650.com/threads/diy-reg-rec-5twins-and-jim.55842/

 

[Jim]

Another from Tech. Having a voltmeter built into the bike is highly recommended.

https://www.xs650.com/threads/voltmeter-installation.58336/

 

[D3viousd4n]

I don’t have another reg/rec unfortunately. I’m pretty sketchy on my wiring though, I wouldn’t be surprised if the issue lied there. I added an inline fuse to the red wire from the reg/rec. I’m thinking I may start by removing that fuse and all the connections and seeing what voltage I’m getting at the unadulterated red wire.

Thanks for these threads as well. An onboard voltmeter sounds very nice.

 

[Jim]

Study this diagram again. On the bottom, you'll see the reg/rec red wire feeding in. It runs back through the 20A main fuse and on to the battery. Provided you wired it like that, you don't need the extra fuse.

 

[D3viousd4n]

Study this diagram again. On the bottom, you'll see the reg/rec red wire feeding in. It runs back through the 20A main fuse and on to the battery. Provided you wired it like that, you don't need the extra fuse.

View attachment 336670

Got it. And just to confirm, here is where I spliced in the brown from the reg/rec. Best of your knowledge this checks out?

 

[Jim]

And just to confirm, here is where I spliced in the brown from the reg/rec. Best of your knowledge this checks out?

Yep, that's correct.

 

[D3viousd4n]

Still getting a weak charge from the system. I’m gonna go through some more troubleshooting following This guide from @gggGary

I have a question about how my reg/rec compares to the solid state ‘80 and newer ones referenced at times in the guide
If my regulator has 7 wires
3 white -> carries ac voltage in
1 green -> supplies current to rotor
1 black -> grounds out the rotor
1 brown -> powers regulator and informs battery status
1 red -> dc current to charge the battery

Do these wire colors correspond correctly to the stock reg/rec?

IE when gggGary says, “locate the green wire at the regulator plug and make a jump from it to ground…” can I be sure that I would use the green wire on my aftermarket reg?