1. Dismiss Notice
  2. Hey Facebook people... We've created a group for XS650.com members to connect. Check it out!
    Dismiss Notice

TCI Replacement 2020 It Works

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Team Junk, May 15, 2020.

  1. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    .... and functional too. :sneaky:
    Test fit on the plate shows I need to trim the phenolic some for plate adjustment.... and.... the top hole needs to be a slot if I hope to have any chance of adjusting timing.... or perhaps I already knew that and jus' forgot.... :doh:
    Case y'all been wondering why no fire yet, one of the carbs went south for the winter and never returned. :rolleyes:
    Got a BS-34 body from @RustiePyles ... thanks buddy.... and parts are on the way from Partzilla, so.... stand by.


    PXL_20210429_204859683.jpg
     
    Rasputin, Mailman, Signal and 2 others like this.
  2. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Ya know... the thought occurred to me that life would be much simpler if I only had a mill. Well.... that, and I actually knew how to use one... :rolleyes:


    800.jpg

    801.jpg

    802.jpg
     
    Mailman, Signal, Team Junk and 3 others like this.
  3. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Was shootin' for a 50 thou air gap... got .047". Close enough. Ready to fire. Jus' waitin' on some carb parts.
    waiting.jpg

    PXL_20210501_010716229.jpg
     
    Rasputin, Mailman, Scripto VU and 4 others like this.
  4. Team Junk

    Team Junk XS650 Guru XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    On the edge of the ledge. Looking good.
     
    Jim likes this.
  5. Team Junk

    Team Junk XS650 Guru XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    I moved this here from another thread because this is the better spot for it, Thanks Jan P

     
    gggGary and Jim like this.
  6. Team Junk

    Team Junk XS650 Guru XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Jan_P said:
    My View Respectfully I don't do this to complain or so Input was asked for and input is given
    I don't seek to upset anyone. .. Input is the seed for development.

    I couldn't agree more. That's why this thread is 58 pages long and growing.
     
    gggGary likes this.
  7. Team Junk

    Team Junk XS650 Guru XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    The stock TCI, the original Pamco, Boyer etc all do not like low or high voltage inputs. So many reports of fried Pamcos that Pete in his instructions and in his recommendations is to use a separate battery when testing to prevent a out of control generator from destroying the igniter box.

    Probably a recommendation for the Gonzo as well.

    It was pretty easy to design the power input filtering inside the Gonzo box because of the very low power requirements.
    For me ,one of the key advantages of the Gonzo is that the delicate parts of the system are mounted away from the heat and vibration of the engine rather than being mounted on the side of the cylinder head with the spark plug just below it.

    The inputs to the Gonzo are well away from the spark plugs instead of 1 inch (25mm) from the spark plugs and 5-6 inches (125-150 mm) from the coils and wiring where the cylinder head mounted ignitions are located reducing noise levels on the Gonzo inputs.



    As far as problem children yes there have been a couple.
    But I know of quit a few out blasting down the road.

    The first report was of erratic and too far advanced : known issue of reversed pickup leads. Never heard back. I will try to follow up.

    The second one is on going and waiting to hear back about progress.

    I'm in a effort to do a census of Gonzo installs.


    Jan_p

    I value your input. Keep it up. :bs:
     
    gggGary likes this.
  8. azman857

    azman857 '80 XS 650SG Rider XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    I've been running a gonzo iggie for 5k miles or more. Using the advanced sensor of the OG TCI, its been running great! It came along at a good time too. The SG had a PAMCO with a E advance. I found out the E advance was advancing too much! Retarding was tried but, to bring the advanced setting in properly put rhe retarded setting to far back. Any way, I put a Gonzo system in and its been good ever since. Im using a monster coil too.
     
    gggGary, Jim and Team Junk like this.
  9. Team Junk

    Team Junk XS650 Guru XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Gonzo turns One !

    What is the Gonzo.

    The Gonzo replaces the points and condensers . That simple
    The Gonzo box mimics the switching that the points do to the ground side of the coil . It uses a magnet and pickup instead of points and a timing cam.

    The Gonzo advantage.

    No contact timing . The only part attached to the hot and vibrating 650 is the magnet and pickup coil both being standard stuff from other bikes used for the same purpose .
    Can “Plug and Play” somewhat on a TCI engine.
    Open source. It keeps morphing allowing it to be installed on a wider variety of machines.

    The origins of the Gonzo Box

    4 years ago I bought a TCI motor. As I drove the 60 miles back home with it I tried to figure out how I was going to make sparks with it.

    Google broke the bad news to me.

    A) there is no such thing as NOS TCI boxes
    B) the used boxes were rough.
    C) the used boxes were flipping expensive.
    D) ditto with the stock TCI pickup

    To make matters even worse at that time there were no “good schematics” to even consider going stock TCI box. To this day I have never seen one in real life.


    I started with what I had and somewhat understood Yamaha OEM XJ700 TCI box hooked up to the TCI pickup on the 650 stator. Had Old Brown starting and running with it. The only problem was no advance.

    Wallowed through several ebay inighter boxes hoping to find one that would work. Built a pickup simulator to test with.

    The so called GN250 igniter box turned up as a prospect. When I found that it was actually and repeatably advancing I posted about it here a year ago.


    The Gonzo is not mine.

    The Gonzo project is open source just like open source software.

    Lot’s of people here @ XS650.com have made this a reality through thought, courage ,expenses , endless photos ,shop time, more photos and most importantly the stuck that sucker in there and let's see have far it gets it down the road guys . Y'all rock!

    The recent record I just found out is posted just before this, 5000 miles driven where car and tire manufactures take their new products to die .

    Just like open source software lots of eyes catch the bugs and suggest the improvements and stretch the envelope of what is possible.

    Cheers to everyone involved here.
    Jack

    The Gonzo project lurks here. http://www.xs650.com/threads/tci-replacement-2020-it-works.57388/
     
  10. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Rudy, can you share with us any more info? Did you have to change the timing any when you installed the GN box? Have you noticed any change in performance.... power... milage... anything?
     
    gggGary and Team Junk like this.
  11. Team Junk

    Team Junk XS650 Guru XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Ya, me too ?
     
    gggGary likes this.
  12. Team Junk

    Team Junk XS650 Guru XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    And to celebrate Gonzo’s birthday @Jim has given us a beautiful birthday gift.

    Major Achievements in this one photo.

    #1 With some testing looks like any XS650 will be able to be equipped with a ignition system very similar to what Yamaha used on the later 650’s
    #2 I see the basis for a great replacement TCI pickup if the original TCI pickups are fried.
    #3 Will give some comparative results for 1969 advance setting vs post century ignition system design.
    #4 Really cool looking and so 50’s retro at the same time.
    #5 A lot of 2 stroke Yamahas and some twin Hondas could benefit from this.

    #6 I’m sure some stuff we don’t know yet.



    http://www.xs650.com/attachments/pxl_20210501_010716229-jpg.190403/
     
  13. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    With a little luck, I'll have a 74 DT250 running the GN box by the end of the year.
     
  14. Team Junk

    Team Junk XS650 Guru XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Ditto 1975 Kawasaki F11 250.
    Engine mount tabs coming from @Travis this week. A little grinding and fitting and a little welding and the work on getting the 250 run start. Looking for crank seals. have base and head gaskets. Trying to get past the Chinese puzzle of JIS screws.
     
    Jim and gggGary like this.
  15. Team Junk

    Team Junk XS650 Guru XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor


    And so it goes.
     
    gggGary and Jim like this.
  16. Team Junk

    Team Junk XS650 Guru XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    upload_2021-5-1_14-21-6.png Outside my window. The Twisted Sisters are drenched.
     
    gggGary and Jim like this.
  17. 2XSive

    2XSive At least one screw loose behind the handle bars XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    404
    1,663
    143
    Michigan
    Be very interested in this. Have a 73 DT and setting points on it is a fun exercise in near futility, especially with the chinese wanna-be points.
     
    gggGary and Jim like this.
  18. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    I remember how much fun it was settin' points on the little Yammies.... :sneaky:
     
    gggGary, Team Junk and 2XSive like this.
  19. Signal

    Signal XS650 Junkie Top Contributor

    Just in from starting a rebuilt stock 650 motor using a Gonzo system. Started and ran well, advanced perfectly. This motor is a repower for our sidecar which is going to be sold (keeping the race motor as spare for new bike). Next Sunday is the have a go day where members of the public buy tickets and get to have a go at swinging.
    The upshot is the bikes do a lot of laps and any weaknesses in the system will be exposed.
    I will report back.
     
    gggGary, GLJ, Jim and 1 other person like this.
  20. Team Junk

    Team Junk XS650 Guru XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Functional Diagram of the Gonzo Igniter Box
    upload_2021-5-1_19-27-34.png


    The stock TCI or Jim’s conversion signals the lady in the Gonzo to tell the computer that the magnet went by .

    The computer thinks about the the last time the magnet went by and in true Alice's Restaurant fashion says wait for it it while come backs around, and thinks it might need to do things earlier depending on how long it takes that magnet to make the circle.

    At the right time the computer tells the lady to flip the breaker points replacement switch.

    This process repeats at up to 140 times per second .




    The Wiring colors are stock for the early TCI bikes (Somewhat)

    The Black wire goes to the primary ground.

    The Red/White wire goes to the Kill Switch.
    It powers the coil and the computer in the Gonzo Box

    The Orange wire goes to the other terminal of the coil.
    It connects to the virtual points in the Gonzo. The virtual points ground and unground the coil in the same fashion the real points did.

    The stock TCI pick in 80 had Orange and Grey wire to the pickup mounted on the stator.

    For harnesses made from scratch I use

    Black Black
    Red Red/White
    Yellow Orange

    Pickups
    Blue
    Green
     

Share This Page