Testing gggGary's Madness Pocket Port...

I don't just post numbers as they are truly meaningless without context.
Beyond that, I am intent on doing more within this thread that just creating a data dump.
Although as I have said many times that the CFM measurement is the Least Important (and it is),
There is still a great deal to gleam from those results for those that understand how to look into the numbers.
This can seem a bit complex as it actually involves several different elements within the port.
Good bit of things to arrange together and then the explanation has to written.
Going to be a minute.. But should be out sometime later tonight.
I believe there will a lot of good information
Hopefull some of you have an idea how that magical CFM # is going to compare to the stock head just from the info
I have already posted. I'll explain it of course. Hopefully it will be worth the wait....
The pic is just because people like pics.

Lovelace.jpg
 
Wow..
Had to do some cleaning up on the spreadsheets.
Been a minute. Nothing like having to redo someting 3 times.
oh well... Let's finally get them out!

First thing we should understand before looking at the charts would be what is in control of the port and when.
There are 2 different zones that handle that, so we'll identify them and determine when that control is transferred.
The first zone would be the Valve/Seat/Throat combination and the second would be the port, specifically the CSA.
That point occurs when the Port reaches Saturation. This is where the Valve Curtain Area is equal to the Port CSA.
This is important as it would be counterproductive to try correcting a problem or find gains working the wrong area.
I have attached the formulas needed to identify the Port Saturtion Point.

First we must find the Valve Curtain Area as it is an element of the Saturation Formula.
I won't repeat the formulas here as the attachment is self explanatory with the relevant values already provided and calculated.
Suffice it to say that with this combination (and typically most xs650 heads) Port Saturation occurs at .271 lift.
So basically the port itself only control a bit more than 0.10 of the 0.40 lift, around 25%. Obviously the highest flow rates.
However the valve (I'll simply use the term valve but it includes seat and throat) controls around 75%, all of which is under the curve.
This is one of the major overlooked aspects when people think about porting.

Port Saturation.jpg

Keep this in mind as we review our data..

Madness Compare CFM.jpg

First thing to look at is the Gold box at the top right of each port labeled CSA.
1.36 and 1.34 right to left as we identified previously. I split the difference in the formula above to 1.35.
Next observe the light blue shaded area representing the low lift points that fall under control of the valve.
You will see a larger than acceptable variance at 0.10 ( more than 13%) and nearly 7% at 0.20.
This is NOT related to the Port Work. It is Valve related.
As seen in the "Arrival" video when I unpackaged the head the valves and springs were installed.
When I ran these tests I had yet to actually even see them, In a conversation with gggGary,
once I made mention of this issure, he explained some of the valve work he had done
and told me that I would find the valves were not the same. The testing had already pointed this out.
This is an example of why it is important to understand what the data is telling you as opposed to just collecting it.
Obviously once I removed the valves for other testing as well as looking more closely at the seat areas it
was clear what gggGary was telling me. As you can see in the pic I tool of the valves the difference
is small, however the Left valve has a slightly sleeker and definitely smoother to the touch than the right valve.
That issue is echoed into the seat and although nothing was absolutely obvious at the throat
a simple mm in that critical spot can make a significant difference not unlike what we are seeing here.
There is more coming on this but for now let's nmove along to the rest of the test data.
At 0.30 lift we are right into the transfer zone where the to unmatched areas are battling a bit but seeing
improvement as the difference drops to 4%. So the valve work is at issue with this head.
Somethng that I think gggGary may have suspected, as he had a bit of a tussle working them I believe.
If I were working this kind of problem I would do more testing at the 0.05 increments within the Valve Control Zone,
but perhaps the key element here was testing the Pocket Port Aspect. Within the 0.10 controlled by the Port
you can see that the numbers fall into line. Right around 2% which is VERY good and close to being within the margin of error.

Moving on to the port work...
The green squares are the 0.10 increments highlighted, the uncolored 0.35 lift value is only there for a reference
and the 0.45 is simply testing to see if the Port is on the edge of choking or still pulling, It's still pulling..
The last key data point to pay attention to would be at the bottom of the pages..
The Port Efficiencynumber which sits right at the SAE street engine qualifier with a 106.57 and a 105.31 left to right.
That is just over a1% variance which is outstanding.

So wrapping this segment up...
We have a head that has Valve/Seat/Throat issue at the moment and a port that is looking quite good with respect to the volumetrics
we tested earlier (CCs Port Mapping) as well as moving air.
Hopefully you are starting to understand how to identify where issues are actually occuring so they can be addressed.
Also... This test alone should give an indication of how critical the valve/seat/throat area is and that although power can be made
in this area even without porting, it can just as easily be lost. We will see more examples that reinforce what is going on here as we proceed.
Velocity Test Results are on deck.. probably tomorrow evening as I have some busuness to attend to in the morning.
Hope I explained it well enough.. If not I'll try to answer questions.
 

Attachments

  • 20260218_104850.jpg
    20260218_104850.jpg
    149.3 KB · Views: 28
Last edited:
It'll take me a while to process all that info!
Yes the LH intake valve and seat got worked "quite a bit".
Looking at piles of used valves I often see a pronounced lip 'tween the tulip and the seat area, to my unpracticed eye this looks counter intuitive to smooth flow. I just "messed around" smoothing that area on the valve marked Left above. I'll see if I can get some pics of other valves.
Hey send me the spread sheet data? I'll see if I can do some graphing.
Noon; The head arrived safely back at the lab.
 
Last edited:
Ok so I made an attempt to clarify what I mean by Control of the port.
Important to understand that that control does NOT mean TOTAL control.
Hopefully this video will clarify it a bit better.
More to the point of this thread and this video is the comparison finally with a stock head.
After all, what we really want to know is whether or not Pocket Porting is a worthwhile endeavor.
Any questions just ask.
On to the Velocities...

It'll take me a while to process all that info!
Yes the LH intake valve and seat got worked "quite a bit".
Looking at piles of used valves I often see a pronounced lip 'tween the tulip and the seat area, to my unpracticed eye this looks counter intuitive to smooth flow. I just "messed around" smoothing that area on the valve marked Left above. I'll see if I can get some pics of other valves.
Hey send me the spread sheet data? I'll see if I can do some graphing.
Noon; The head arrived safely back at the lab.
Got you my man...
I'll inbox you with the data.
Glad you it arrived... good thing


 

Attachments

  • Madness Compare CFM.jpg
    Madness Compare CFM.jpg
    157.3 KB · Views: 13
  • Stock Madness Complete.jpg
    Stock Madness Complete.jpg
    119.5 KB · Views: 16
Last edited:
On to the King maker of Porting... VELOCITY!
We'll start by comparing the velocities between the ports of Madness..
I think the charts are pretty self explanatory, but there are a couple of things to be aware of.
The data points are taaken at 3 different depths within the port, 15mm, 30 mm (although the charts incorrectly state 35mm) and 55mm.
The Maximum Port Velocity (Total or at any Isolated Point) should be 340 fps...
(as calculated, calibrated with my Pitot Tube using testing pressures and the resulting drops) although an isolated point exceeding that figure is not a crippling issue, as long as it's not excessive beyond that limit. Basically the ideal is to have each and every point at 340 fps although perfection is very difficult if not impossible to achieve in porting as well as most things in life. The goal is always just to do the best you can do with what you have.
Balance between the measuring points within the port is HIGHLY DESIRABLE. Balance between the ports is CRITICAL.
When making comparisons between the data points be certain that you are comparing the same points,
the mirrored images (as looking at the ports side by side) can be confusing to some perhaps.
Last point is the color coding explanation... The Gold is the fastest point, the Red is the Slowest.
Any question, just ask.

@ 15mm
Madness VDP Comparison Between Ports 15mm.jpg


@ 30mm
Madness VDP Comparison Between Ports 35mm.jpg

@ 55mm
Madness VDP Comparison Between Ports 55mm.jpg

Obviously this is a simple Pocket Port test and NOT an optimization attempt.
The goal here is to see how a simple Pocket Port affects the flow in comparison to a Stock Port.

The Total Port Balance isn't Terrible but not tight. The points within the port start getting a bit stretched apart.
Notice how they start diverging as they get closer to the valve as they get closer to the Vacuum.
Of course what we all want to know is how the velocities compare to the stock head...
That's next!
 
Last edited:
Ok, time to see what happens when compared to the stock flow...
Should be no surprise that since material was taken AWAY, we should see a DECREASE in Velocity.
When checking points within a port while developing that port, the general rule of thumb
is to add material where the Velocities are too slow, and to take away material when it is too fast.

Then the trick is to do that while keepinhg the CFMs in alignment with the engines requirements based upon volumetrics.
You will see here in this video that the stock port is already substantially BELOW the 340 fps target which is the highest speed as determined when the Differential Pressure of the Pitot Tube sinks below the actual testing pressure. There are many ways of calculating the "Sonic Choke" set point.
After a great deal of studying, discussions, contemplating and testing, this is the point that I am comfortable with as a maximum.
Since the stock port is already slower than it can be there is no benefit in opening the port further.
Velocity is more sensitive to this than CFM as we will see.



I have attached a pic of the port opening attempting to show the vaning I mentioned.
I also added a pic of a stock port mold that I took, marked with the measureing points as well as pointing to the vane.
Sometimes a picture is worth a whole lot of words and more..
I also added a drawing of an "Ideal" Port. Obvioulsy not practical for a vehicle but it is the concept of a restriction,
with a swell to slow the air and create a High Pressure/Kinetic Energy zone.
We can see that swell is extremely obvious in the stock head when looking at the port mold I attached.
The only issue is that the port is oversized for Velocity despite being correctly sized for the CFM

For those that have an interest we have the Valve Depression Dispersement showing where the air is flowing across the valve.
Gives a great visual representation of how the air is moving across the valve...
That is up next! Then the Smoke Show before the wrap up review of the results.

IF there is interest beyond that I do have a very special surprise upgrade test on the Madness head to close it out.
Something I added for shits and giggles when my Custom Built Swirl Smoke Vape (no I DON'T Vape, it's a tool)
failed me with dead batteries that wouldn't take a charge, thus cancelling that test.
Something that I believe may open some eyeballs...
But it is up to you guys.

Vane.jpgVane in Mold.jpg
 

Attachments

  • Ideal Port.jpg
    Ideal Port.jpg
    184.2 KB · Views: 27
Last edited:
Slow down SSR velocity way before SSR.
You want lower velocity before radius.
To do that, a D port works.

Reduces detachment and increases cfm.
Intake in particular, exh. as a rule.

BTW: why 28" test pressure?
 
Slow down SSR velocity way before SSR.
You want lower velocity before radius.
To do that, a D port works.

Reduces detachment and increases cfm.
Intake in particular, exh. as a rule.

BTW: why 28" test pressure?

Come on man... Really?
It;s not like I didn't test the D port for months...
You made the same incredulous statements in the posting on that 2 years ago.
The video I showed you then displayed without any question the limitation of that design.
The vapor was falling out just the way fuel does, which limits power and effecciency.
SQUARE CORNERS CREATE DEAD ZONES, KILL PORT EFFICIENCY..
I am not going to cover old ground with you in this thread.
I certainly am not seeking any head porting advice from someone that doesn't even understand why I am porting at 28".
But if it is working for you ... I am happy for you.
You can always create your own post demonstrating your work if you like.
There is nobody putting it all out with DEMONSTRATABLE, REPEATABLE, TESTING on FULL display.
I even gave a litteral tutorial on it, and unlike yourself, I don't just make statements or post numbers..
I show the testing,, I EXPLAIN the numbers/how the changes affect air movement.
This thread is about POCKET PORTING just in case you missed it.

So I am going to get back to that and getting this finished up.
Have a great day!
 
Last edited:
Now we are going to look at how the air is moving across the valve.
I call this test VDP for Valve Depression.
This is done by using a special valve I made to read the pressure drop across the top of the valve.
It can be clocked in any position. Typically I will use the following points to gather the data:

These are the CORE 4

Long Side Turn (LST)
Plug
Short Side Turn (SST)
Inside

I then split those points (think N, S, E, W, NE, SE, SW, NW) and identify them as:

LST/INSIDE
SST/INSIDE
LST/PLUG
SST/PLUG

This gives me 8 data points.
Then I take the core 4 and add the 2 adjacent data points to get a percentage for each of those particular "Zones".
That is more useful than any individual point, although a particularly defficient point can bring those down.
If that occurs that deficiency is easily identified by using the 8 data points as opposed to a single point for any quandrant.
Now that I have done my best to explain how it is done and why, I'll bring the charts in the next post.
I did attach pics of the valve to perhaps make it easier to understand.

VDP Valve.jpgVDP Valve in Head.jpg
 
First thing we will look at is the difference between the 2 ports of the Madness head as usual.


Madness VDP Comparison @ 0.1.jpg

Madness VDP Comparison @ 0.2.jpg

Madness VDP Comparison @ 0.3.jpg

Madness VDP Comparison @ 0.4.jpg

The most noticable thing we see between the 2 here is how much more the L port uses the LST.
Nearly 50% running across the LST and it's 2 adjacent data points
The "quadrants" are quite comparable.
How does this dispersion pattern compare to the stock head?
That's next...
 
So here we will once again compare the Madness L Port to the Stock Head as it is the higher performing port.
Don't think I need to explain anything else... you've read it already.
Without further adieu...

Stock & Madness VDP Comparison @ 0.1.jpg

Stock & Madness VDP Comparison @ 0.2.jpg

Stock & Madness VDP Comparison @ 0.3.jpg


Stock & Madness VDP Comparison @ 0.4.jpg

So what do YOU see when evaluating these charts??
You should notice that it appears that the Stock head seems to make better use of the NEAR SIDE of the Valve.
"Near" meaning from the plug to inside.
I should have covered what would be "Ideal".
Ideally you would want air to flow evenly across the valve, utilizing ALL of the valve.
Using 8 data points would mean that each data point should flow 12% for the Ideal.

I will now present the D45 F, a HIGHLY Developed head as a reference to what that looks like.
Notice that the LST is still Dominant. That is where the Air WANTS to go..
That is Rule #2 of the 5 Golden Rules of Porting...
"Let the air move the way it wants to, not the way you think it should".


D45 F Comp.jpg

Generally I still have a head here after I have run these VDP testing and I then refer to the charts for specific
points that are deficient while inspecting that particular section of the bowl/valve area for issues.
These tests can point to a specific part of the SST or the bowl transition area from the wall for modification if necessary.
Especially when used in conjunction with the other data gathered such as Velocity testing and or Smoke tests.
Do not lose sight of the fact that the Madness port had some "cleaning up" done around the quide area.
That resulted in a decreased Velocity across the top of the port in that area as a result of the reduced restriction when material was removed.
That reduced restriction is what allows for more air to move along the "Ceiling" to the LST resulting in the increased percentages we see in the chart for the Left Port. Perhaps a better look at the Right Port's guide area compared to the Left Port at the guide for anything that might explain
why it is flowing just more than half of what the Left Port is flowing at the LST position.
Could also be a difference in the bowl transition area from the wall. A couple of points that I would look into based on these results.
Lastly, It could just as easily be an issue with the Valve's profile just above the seat. A ridge will slow the air reducing the pressure drop.
That's 3 specific points to inspect.. There is always a cause and effect. If you have questions.. Just ask.
Last reveal will be tomorrow with the Smoke...
Kind of anti Climatic most likely, I doubt there will be any surprises although I have yet to actually watch those videos yet.
After that I will hit all the "Bullet Points" in a review.

Then I do have a special bonus test that should be worth the watch for those that are interested in getting their heads flowing "Up to Speed".
 
Last edited:
Come on man... Really?
It;s not like I didn't test the D port for months...
You made the same incredulous statements in the posting on that 2 years ago.
The video I showed you then displayed without any question the limitation of that design.
The vapor was falling out just the way fuel does, which limits power and effecciency.
SQUARE CORNERS CREATE DEAD ZONES, KILL PORT EFFICIENCY..
I am not going to cover old ground with you in this thread.
I certainly am not seeking any head porting advice from someone that doesn't even understand why I am porting at 28".
But if it is working for you ... I am happy for you.
You can always create your own post demonstrating your work if you like.
There is nobody putting it all out with DEMONSTRATABLE, REPEATABLE, TESTING on FULL display.
I even gave a litteral tutorial on it, and unlike yourself, I don't just make statements or post numbers..
I show the testing,, I EXPLAIN the numbers/how the changes affect air movement.
This thread is about POCKET PORTING just in case you missed it.

So I am going to get back to that and getting this finished up.
Have a great day!
Sure is a lot of charts and bullet points with circles and arrows for just a pocket port job.

Keep going!

Let me know if you need any advice.
 
Very interesting. I'm past caring these days whether my 650 has 40 or 42 bhp! The last time I had this stuff done it was CNC porting, big valves etc.... on a set of RS1200 heads. Done at Hammer Performance by Dan Norlin. They were a thing of great beauty.

Last time I did porting myself was on two stroke Yamaha motors, over fifty years ago :)
 
Very interesting. I'm past caring these days whether my 650 has 40 or 42 bhp
It's absolutely true that there are no large gains to be made from porting an engine that doesn't already have good horsepower, because it is a percentage gain. Those gains can reach as much as 8-10%, although most certainly not with a Pocket Port. The real gains to be made with a properly ported head have to do with throttle response and more power available throughout the curve, not raw Hp. It is about increasing the EFFICIENCY of the motor which in turn increases an engine's response as well as power.

Truly CNC porting is King (as long as it has been well designed and not just a jewelry maker) because it is consistent, repeatable, always giving the same results.That is something beyond even the very best hand porters.
I do have a new process I will be introducing relatively soon that kind of splits the difference, allowing me to provide far greater consistency.
It is not a design for the full tilt racers whose requirements are vastly different from the everyday XS rider (650-700cc) I am designing for.
Thank you for your input!
 
It's absolutely true that there are no large gains to be made from porting an engine that doesn't already have good horsepower, because it is a percentage gain. Those gains can reach as much as 8-10%, although most certainly not with a Pocket Port. The real gains to be made with a properly ported head have to do with throttle response and more power available throughout the curve, not raw Hp. It is about increasing the EFFICIENCY of the motor which in turn increases an engine's response as well as power.

Truly CNC porting is King (as long as it has been well designed and not just a jewelry maker) because it is consistent, repeatable, always giving the same results.That is something beyond even the very best hand porters.
I do have a new process I will be introducing relatively soon that kind of splits the difference, allowing me to provide far greater consistency.
It is not a design for the full tilt racers whose requirements are vastly different from the everyday XS rider (650-700cc) I am designing for.
Thank you for your input!
Thanks for the comments. For certain, the Hammer Performance CNC porting is transformational on the 1200 Buell (five speed Evo Sportster) motors.
 
Back
Top