The complexity of modern valve trains and maintenance costs

[gggGary]

When you had the FJR you did not get to adjust any shims?

I've had a parade of modern shim under bucket bikes/engines, so far have avoided ever doing a valve adjustment on one.....
I'll toss in; a "recent" valve check is one purchase criteria.
On many bikes getting TO the cam, valves is as bad as the check. A garage full of removed plastic fairings, radiators and more is the norm.
My Prius' were shim under bucket, were run to 180,000 and 230,000 miles with no valve setting. The factory suggestion is if they aren't making noise, no inspection/adjustment needed. Motorcycle engine design may not be to Toyota standards yet.
Toyota has now dropped shims completely, going to a range of bucket thicknesses. Though buckets are more expensive than shims, the reduced need for clearance changes more than offsets the cost overall. AFAIK even large Toyota service shops don't stock buckets. Abuse the motor by either exceeding operating limitations (RPM) or not doing maintenance and you may pay the piper.
Well engineered modern engines that aren't abused typically go the life of the vehicle without valve adjustment. Your experience may vary.

 

[Raymond]

The most unusual as in rare bike I've owned was a Vertemati 500 supermoto. The tappets were made from CUBE - copper beryllium - said to be the hardest known alloy, that's their claim not mine, and they were set at the factory with no provision for adjusting.

 

[RC4MAN]

My HD V-Rod has shim under bucket, which is why it's only been adjusted once in 80k miles
The engine has 3 mounting points, the rear rides on the swingarm pivot, the upper front is a rubber mount from the front head to the frame and the lower is an adjustable Heim Joint link to center the engine in frame.
To remove the cam covers entails putting a floor jack under the engine sump, disconnecting the lower link, removing the top front engine mount and lowering the front of the engine to supply enough clearance to remove the cover for the front head.
That's after the exhaust, complete airbox under the faux gas tank, battery and other accoutrements have been removed.
The only benefit is it uses the same sized shims as my Suzuki SV1000 which is also shim under bucket. However the folks at Suzuki designed a simple chain to a gear between the cams, which are gear driven so it's only necessary to unbolt the cam bearing caps and the cams lift out without having to fiddle with cam chains.
The HD, no such luck.
Oh, and a dealer charges $500 to do it.

In contrast to the Kawasaki 900 Vulcan I had for a bit, remove tank, remove cam covers, measure with feeler gage, shim over bucket with rocker arms that simply slide aside, remove and replace shim and allow the centering spring to push the rocker arm back into position. Easiest shim job I ever did.

 

[jetmechmarty]

My HD V-Rod has shim under bucket, which is why it's only been adjusted once in 80k miles
The engine has 3 mounting points, the rear rides on the swingarm pivot, the upper front is a rubber mount from the front head to the frame and the lower is an adjustable Heim Joint link to center the engine in frame.
To remove the cam covers entails putting a floor jack under the engine sump, disconnecting the lower link, removing the top front engine mount and lowering the front of the engine to supply enough clearance to remove the cover for the front head.
That's after the exhaust, complete airbox under the faux gas tank, battery and other accoutrements have been removed.
The only benefit is it uses the same sized shims as my Suzuki SV1000 which is also shim under bucket. However the folks at Suzuki designed a simple chain to a gear between the cams, which are gear driven so it's only necessary to unbolt the cam bearing caps and the cams lift out without having to fiddle with cam chains.
The HD, no such luck.
Oh, and a dealer charges $500 to do it.

When it comes to old bikes (or cars) simple is better. These more complex machines will last as long as they last. Way down the road, how many people will be working on M8 Harley-Davidsons in their garage or tent in the backyard? The EVO may last beyond them. Maybe. That’s assuming there is still interest. Today, there are old people playing video games. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

 

[RC4MAN]

When it comes to old bikes (or cars) simple is better. These more complex machines will last as long as they last. Way down the road, how many people will be working on M8 Harley-Davidsons in their garage or tent in the backyard? The EVO may last beyond them. Maybe. That’s assuming there is still interest. Today, there are old people playing video games. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

Yeah, loved the little 250 BSA single I had. Had eccentric rocker shafts, rotate them one way or other till proper gap is measured and tighten jam nut on end of shaft. Everything easy to access. It was also interesting that HD copied the setup on the XR 750 heads.

 

[Raymond]

When it comes to old bikes (or cars) simple is better. These more complex machines will last as long as they last. Way down the road, how many people will be working on M8 Harley-Davidsons in their garage or tent in the backyard? The EVO may last beyond them. Maybe. That’s assuming there is still interest. Today, there are old people playing video games. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

These days, I often get that end of an era feeling, that a familiar World is passing away. Other people get that feeling? The stuff we like is all coming to an end, redundant, irrelevant? The feeling you're glad to have lived now and not in whatever the future looks like?

 

[jetmechmarty]

These days, I often get that end of an era feeling, that a familiar World is passing away. Other people get that feeling? The stuff we like is all coming to an end, redundant, irrelevant? The feeling you're glad to have lived now and not in whatever the future looks like?

Very true. But, we cannot allow ourselves to become irrelevant. Operating and maintaining an old vehicle is fine, but the world around us is changing fast. We have to keep up or we become helpless and miserable. My dad seems to have stepped into a time machine about 1975. It’s like he popped out in 2025. He’s helpless. He lives isolated from family and most of his friends are dead. He can’t use a PC or a cell phone. He appears to be a miserable 90 year old person spending his time looking at the TV. He’s teaching me well. I will do my best to keep up. There’s still nothing wrong with driving a Studebaker. It’s good to have some nerdy things to keep us busy. We still need to know how to function outside our home and on our own. Self checkout and kiosks are only the beginning.

 

[arcticXS]

Yeah, loved the little 250 BSA single I had. Had eccentric rocker shafts, rotate them one way or other till proper gap is measured and tighten jam nut on end of shaft. Everything easy to access. It was also interesting that HD copied the setup on the XR 750 heads.

Isn' some Honda like that? CB350K4 ?

 

[cra-z1]

Yes CB350 has eccentric shafts

 

[Mailman]

My Prius' were shim under bucket, were run to 180,000 and 230,000 miles with no valve setting. The factory suggestion is if they aren't making noise, no inspection/adjustment needed.

Well….that surprised me. I just assumed that all modern cars were hydraulic lifters.

 

[arcticXS]

Yes CB350 has eccentric shafts

Surely that made the rockers lighter and allowed fairly high rpm. I seem to remember 10500 rpm redline?

 

[bosco659]

How about this one?

 

[Mailman]

How about this one?

That’s the craziest looking valve train I’ve ever seen!