The new life of a 72' XS II - Build thread

[Jim]

Measuring resistance between the rings and the engine, I should according to the thread read infinity but I got 7.8 ohms, I tried unplugging the new reg/rec thinking there could be a short somewhere, but still the same.

Next up I’ll try to bypass the reg/rec via the green wire as stated in the thread on checking the electrical system, but the rotor is basically deemed dead now according to the thread because of the resistance between the rings and the engine.
I’ve been told the wires from the stator are a common weak point as well.

Looking at your pic, looks to me like you still have the brushes connected? That would invalidate your test. You're trying to determine if the windings are shorted to ground, but if the brush that grounds to the stator is still installed, it's grounding through that brush. Remove the brush and test it again?

 

[Heinz Ketchup]

Looking at your pic, looks to me like you still have the brushes connected? That would invalidate your test. You're trying to determine if the windings are shorted to ground, but if the brush that grounds to the stator is still installed, it's grounding through that brush. Remove the brush and test it again?

View attachment 344484

You are absolutely right, I was measuring without the stator with my first multimeter, then startet to reassemble when I found the other, ending up testing it in a test bound to fail.
I tested again and the rotor is indeed in great condition, I'm slightly surprised it's in that well condition - but that is just great, thank you for pointing out the obvious!
After cleaning a few plugs and making a direct ground wire from the case of the reg&rec to the negative terminal, I'm measuring 12.8 V charging current revving the engine.
I am running a very small Lithium battery, so tried with a mates brand new 12A lead acid battery, but actually got a slightly lower reading with his.
I'm thinking that since I'm getting a charge at all, the reg & rec has got to be a Type B, which is the one supposed to work on this 72' model (eBay seller listed 75-80 compatibility, why I was suspecting something wrong and it might actually be a Type A for the 80 and later models).

I tried going for a small ride, it holds it's charge when above 5k ish rpm but below slowly discharges.
I also changed my main jet as I'm still trying to figure out the perfect combo for this exhaust and foam filters, went to a 122,5 main with the 45 pilot, still stutters when I try to give it full power revving to high rpm, it also pops at deceleration now - so plan is to first adjust mixture, then go 42,5 pilot to cure popping if mixturescrew didn't, then go 120 main to cure the stumbling in high rev.

At this point it seems most probable that it's the reg&rec that just doesn't charge well enough, but I do need to check the stator.
I'm thinking I'll check with this method found in one of the other threads:

Before you try testing the output you need to check for proper input.
On the 78 power goes to the regulator on the brown wire. If the battery voltage on this brown wire is low the regulator turn on and sends power to the brush on a green wire. Power then flows through the rotor out thye other brush on a black wire to the harness ground. It also grounds through the mount screws for that brush.
You need to check the voltage on the brown wire at the reg. It should read very close to battery voltage. If no or low voltage you need to figure out why.
If good then with the key on, not running, check voltage at the green wire brush, it should be close to battery voltage.
If not check the ground on the reg.
Another thing you can do is a reg bypass test. With the bike running, meter hooked to battery, jump from battery positive to the green wire at the brush. This should make the battery voltage rise. If it does then the rotor and stator are working. The reg is the problem. Check as I said above, voltages and ground.
Have you read Curly's charging guide? reading it may help you in your trsting.
Leo

Regarding making your own reg&rec, I havn't been able to find anything about if it's possible to limit it to charge no more than 14V, as I'm using a lithium battery - Similar to how Rick's electrics reg&rec for lithium models can do.

 

[Heinz Ketchup]

6. At the stator wire connector locate the three white wires. Use a voltmeter set on the AC scale to test the three possible connections between the white wires by probing from the backside of the connector. (The connector should be plugged together for this test) With the engine running at idle you should see about 10.5 to 11 AC volts (Not DC) on each of the three combinations of white to white that you make. If you get a very low reading on one or two legs then something is grounding your stator. If you have high readings on any of the legs (i.e. 16-18VDC) then your rectifier is bad.

7. If you got low readings on any of the stator voltage checks then unplug the connector and use your ohm meter to check the stator windings. Check the resistance between the three fabric covered wires (stator side) on the side of the connector. On each white to white connection you should read about 0.4 to 0.5 Ohms. If you get a very low reading on all of the three combinations find the single Yellow wire connector and disconnect it. Re-check your stator resistance. If the readings are now good then the yellow wire or safety relay are shorted. If there is one or more that still read low after disconnecting the yellow then check those legs by touching one lead to ground with the other on the white wire. You should see a very high Kilo ohm or infinite reading. If you get a low resistance check the stator lead pigtail to see if it is pinched by the cases or rubbed through on the frame. If that looks ok then your stator is shorted and needs to be replaced.

And that's about it except to say that dirty connections and worn brushes account for most of the charging system problems. Good Luck you'll find the problem.

and this

 

[Its been a long time]

Regarding making your own reg&rec, I havn't been able to find anything about if it's possible to limit it to charge no more than 14V, as I'm using a lithium battery - Similar to how Rick's electrics reg&rec for lithium models can do.

I looked at using a lithium battery, but decided not to. I found an adjustable voltage regulator that I think will work for you.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12662885...d8zelz-QYS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

I recommend you fit a generic three phase rectifier and automotive regulator. I did it and I'm very pleased with it. The XS650 charging system is good despite a reputation that a PMA is preferred. I disagree with that.

 

[Heinz Ketchup]

Okay checked everything and with the reg bypass test it was finally concluded that the regulator part of the reg/rec doesn’t function fully, only putting out 12.8V, voltage increasing to 13.5V with bypass (at just over idle, figured I’d fry the battery if I revved higher).
Everything else is checking out great.

I looked at using a lithium battery, but decided not to. I found an adjustable voltage regulator that I think will work for you.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12662885...d8zelz-QYS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

I recommend you fit a generic three phase rectifier and automotive regulator. I did it and I'm very pleased with it. The XS650 charging system is good despite a reputation that a PMA is preferred. I disagree with that.

The seller you’re referring to won’t send to Denmark , brexit effect, but great spot!
I’m struggling a bit with differentiating the different regulators, as no one states A or B type, I’ll try searching for a similar adjustable regulator for the models on the compatibility list of the ones you’ve sent, if not successful by night I’ll order Rick’s Electrics model

 

[Heinz Ketchup]

I believe I found the correct part, after spending a lot of time clarifying that it was a Type-B, so I have now ordered both a 35A three phase rectifier similar to the WindyNation from the DIY Reg/rec guide as well as the adjustable regulator, same model suggested but from germany - Should arrive in a few days, looking forward to hopefully getting a solid charging system.
So far all I can say is thank you!

 

[Its been a long time]

I believe I found the correct part, after spending a lot of time clarifying that it was a Type-B, so I have now ordered both a 35A three phase rectifier similar to the WindyNation from the DIY Reg/rec guide as well as the adjustable regulator, same model suggested but from germany - Should arrive in a few days, looking forward to hopefully getting a solid charging system.
So far all I can say is thank you!

Good news, keep us up to date with how it goes.

 

[Heinz Ketchup]

Finally got the regulator yesterday, beginning to hook everything up:

I think it’s right, otherwise please chime in before I start it tomorrow.
Also designed and 3D printed a chain guard/slider for the swingarm:

Mounted with one strip around the slider and swingarm and one just through holes underneath, also one at the chain guard mount on the swingarm in the front, other than that it clearly snaps onto the tube part of the swingarm in two places.
I printed it in PETG, looking forward to see how it holds up, only the front half will realistically touch the chain, when slacking the most.

 

[Jan_P]

Depending on wiring colors ..but the ground -minus can be found on the regulator not connected
Measuring resistance from the post to the mounting bracket / cover
Then it is to figure out the other 2

 

[Jim]

I think it’s right, otherwise please chime in before I start it tomorrow.

Looks correct from here.

 

[Heinz Ketchup]

Forgot to reply, charging system is working great, really a good choice to make the diy trick

Now I’m really struggling to stop an air leak from the intake manifold, noticed some scratches inside the rubber - I hope I can
resolve it without replacing, we’ll see.

I’ll also ideally find a xs1 or xs2 airboxes to replace the foam filters, but haven’t found a pair at a reasonable price the last few years.

 

[GLJ]

Now I’m really struggling to stop an air leak from the intake manifold, noticed some scratches inside the rubber

I think that's a split not a scratch. Do yourself and the engine a favor and replace them with new ones.

 

[Jan_P]

I have used red Liquid gasket over the years unless cracked i believe it can seal it
I have had very good results
Can have been replaced by other but I have not used them

 

[Heinz Ketchup]

I tried to look at the carb intake again and I have decided I can live on just porridge and pasta/ketchup this month, so I ordered new intake boots and also the new oil pipe with cooler, hopefully it can help cool the head a bit - it has been running a bit hot.
-I welded my current oil pipe together from parts, myself when I was 19, and I have been worried about it since heheh...

(Picture off Heiden tuning's website)

Looking forward to mounting the new stuff

 

[Heinz Ketchup]

Got around to cut and weld up the skidplate in stainless steel, what a great chance to practice my TIG welding skills... heheh.. yeah they're pretty bad

Also did you guys know a box wine is actually a multitool?
Test fitting:

Welding:

Also just received the new intake carb boots and oil pipe yesterday, looking forward to mounting it, but a bit concerned about the slight angle the head mounts have(middle picture below), despite the semi flexible hoses and let's see how long this set of xsperformance boots will last...

 

[Heinz Ketchup]

new intake boots fixed fake between carb and head, but now the uni filters I’ve been using for 8 years took in fake air (fair enough for lasting that long).

So naturally I decided that water might be a good diet for me this month, so I moved down on the boat, and ordered some used airboxes…

now the air leak problem is fixed, wuhu! Just need to spend some time rejetting and adjusting - since the battery box is of own making I also need to fabricate some mounts for the airboxes.
Tomorrow I’ll see if I can get the mixture decent and also change the oil pipe

 

[Heinz Ketchup]

Well air leak is not fixed…
I tried to reheat the rubber with a torch (out of reach of the flame), which did soften the rubber some, I also tried some different band clamps to tighten it further, but only seemed to make the problem worse- I can get it to seal, but it has to be in a very specific position and any slight movement or vibration will let in air.
Maybe the only solution is to also buy new rubber for the airboxes…

Also got the new oil pipe with cooler on, used alu washers as I could not find any crush washers, but seems like it won’t do, so I’ll have to find some crush washer tomorrow.

 

[Heinz Ketchup]

Figured out one of the courses for the air leak:

Heated carefully with a heatgun and it went back to original shape.
But found the problem was not just here, the carbholder would let in false air, but when I put strips forcing the right carb down it got better, and strips forcing the left carb up (seen from the seat) it would seal tightly and run smoothhhhhhhh


Fixed the oil problem from the new oil pipe on the right side, it was just a matter of adding an extra spacer under the fitting between it and the cylinder head, to ensure the fitting was not touching the head and creating a small leak - just need to do it for the other side.

Went on a 500 km test run, got a fine because the wire for my rear lights broke, during riding, so I didn't notice - quick fix.
Then the next day 200 km later, the mounting point for the exhaust broke, luckily I had some spare strips with me to keep it on.

The cable shoe for the main positive wire going to the battery terminal broke 100 km later - starting to think this bike might vibrate a bit?
All good, just need to weld a new bracket onto the frame or make a new bracket.
Distinguished Gentlemans Ride went well again this year, being the host in Aalborg, Denmark again.

Still working on the Skidplate /engine guard.



But I really need to figure out how to fix the air leak, from what I can tell with carb cleaner, the airleak comes from between the carb and the carbholder/intake manifold.

Oh yeah, the shock factory - 2Win shocks are working incredibly well, I'm so impressed with them - in the beginning I though they didn't work because I couldn't feel anything, until I realized that's how well they work, I have an incredible feedback from the ground, where I can really feel the contact and the grip, very grounded feel, but I don't feel the small holes and inconsistencies, potholes too, I find myself searching for holes on and offroad to force them to get overloaded, but they just don't - offroad they are very well planted as well, a bit stiffly sprung, but I can really get the power into the rear wheel without sliding unless I want - very impressed! (have not done single track with this new setup yet, but both completely offroad in forrest and 4x4 tracks feel great - not like a proper enduro bike, but impressive, much better than the koni or hagon shocks)

 

[Heinz Ketchup]

Heheh well the vibrations just seem to keep causing problems, one of the terminals to the voltage regulator vibrated off, I read 20V on my speedo, but at that point it was already too late - cooked my battery and made a lovely smoke show.

But had a great ride.

put a different battery on when I went home, and everything seems fine, other than the headlight bulb which need replacing - silly mistake, just need to put on some connectors with a safety stop, or just solder it, but I'm afraid a soldered plug might break with these vibrations.

If I had the money maybe a rephrasing to 277 degrees might be nice, to lower the vibrations - we'll see in the future.

 

[Heinz Ketchup]

I finished my my masters degree, with a pretty cool project, according to me, in collaboration with Yamaha Scandinavia, on making their CP3 platform more inclusive for female and shorter male riders, by introducing an adjustable subframe - a lot more complex than it sounds.

Anyway, I figured I had to get my motor back on the road as I had to give back the MT09 Yamaha let me borrow for prototyping.
I soldered and glued the regulator and the rectifier, to hopefully avoid any costly un-rattling in the future.

I also made a bracket to hold the air filter boxes, to get stress off the intake boots.

Connected a new battery and there was power throughout the system, but no spark…

I think I might have fright my Boyer ignition…

I am reading 12 V on the wires going into the blue ignition box, but nothing happens when I kick, when I try to join the stator plate wires going out of the ignition unit, I get nothing.

This could be because the coil might be toasted with an extra side of coal, I am reading 0.6 ohms on the primary side and 8.39 k ohms on the secondary side (17,5 k ohms at caps), when it should be 2.7 K ohms as far as I read.

But I guess there’s no way to know if the ignition box is OK without buying a new coil…
Though I fear I might need to replace both, what a great way to start unemployment hahah