The Punisher

[BluzPlayer]

Hello,
This will be the start of my build thread.
I have two bikes, one is a hardtail.
The hardtail will be the subject of this project.
The Plan....
See what I have
Determine what I need
Build it

LOL. Sounds easy. I am guessing not.
Sooo the general outline for the build:

Engine Mods-
750 Big Fin Kit (purchased from Mikes at his introductory price)
Complete with small holes. NP
Twisted Crank.... Don't like the sound of an even firing sewing machine buzzing between my legs.
Maybe the guitar player in me. but give me syncopation any and everyday.
Shell Cam for re-phase.
New cam chain and guides. That's a given.
Upgraded oil filtration and cooler
Update rocker arms (elephant Feet?? ) more study
Inspect all bearings/surfaces/parts for spec. Replace and or renew. Obvious given.
Upgrade charging system (PMA/Jim's Rotor/Gonzo) more study
Port Head, Valve job. (D Shape Port ala "Jack"... I wish) lol.
8 plate Alto clutch conversion (Thanks gggGary)
One piece clutch rod aluminum (Thanks GLJ)
Hydraulic clutch (Undetermined as Daniels project seems to have fallen through)
Tuned exhaust built for engine specs
2 into 1 intake (Joe Wiseguy)
Vapor Blast Parts
Polish Parts

Frame-
Strip, add gussets tabs etc. Clean welds
Prep
Powdercoat
Wiring Harness
Install new bearings (Steering)

Forks-
Updated Minton Mods
Seals
Modified Triple Tree
Fork Brace
Fender
Calipers and discs
Gaitors
Polish
Powdercoat

Misc-
Update controls
Update/Renew Instruments
Hand built custom seat
Custom paint
Custom Tank

Well that is the basic outline for the build.
I'll continue tomorrow

oh yea... PUNISHER???? well yea. It IS a Hardtail .. lmao

 

[Jim]

Upgrade charging system (PMA/Jim's Rotor/Gonzo) more study

I suppose you could (legitimately) call me biased, but I'd stick with the stock charging system. Properly maintained it just works.
Does it still have the stock TCI iggy?

 

[BluzPlayer]

I suppose you could (legitimately) call me biased, but I'd stick with the stock charging system. Properly maintained it just works.
Does it still have the stock TCI iggy?

Lol.. I know your intentions are pure Jim.
It is the quality and reasonable cost of your Rotor work that has me considering it.
Especially when combined with the breakthrough work Team Junk and yourself have done in regard to the Gonzo ignition.
I love the idea of having the timing originating from the crank. I will have to work through some issues if I do go that route.
First of all the engine does not have TCI. It has points. Secondly the motor will be re-phased, so... another issue to nail down
I do like the challenge and I very much prefer to work with people in the community that push the limits for all to benefit.
So I have a definite lean in that direction. I just want to understand all the different options completely before I make that decision.
Right now I have a basic understanding of each option. I have followed your rotor rebuilds and the Gonzo development fervently.

 

[halfmile]

2 into 1 intake?

 

[BluzPlayer]

2 into 1 intake?

Yes halfmile. I know that along with several other things I intend on doing has more than a few heads scratching. It might be so bad that Travis has to fumigate my thread for fear of a lice infestation. Or perhaps a simple shampoo with some head and shoulders might alleviate the itch. On a more serious note...
I like things different. I've read the cons on these pages ad nauseum. Usually brought forth by the same select individuals. I doubt that most of them have ever used one. I have. Not on an xs650 but on a parallel twin. Without any issue whatsoever. It is simpler with a single carb. It stands out different and it is equal in performance in any real world way. I've read all the yakky yak about unequal runners etc etc.
Ridiculous. The intake runners on your car are more likely than not unequal. Probably performs just fine. Tuning is a bit different and perhaps that scares some people, I don't know.
My one and only concern would be if it were to interfere with my riding position. Since I have yet to mock the bike up that remains to be seen.
My initial observations tell me that I can make it work. I have complete confidence in my ability to include this element in my build. If it doesn't work out I do have 2 other pairs of carbs so I can fit right in. People have scratched their heads forever over people that do things differently.
Fortunately us different people have continued down our path, secure in our knowledge and ability. And the world as well as this very motorcycle community are better for it.

 

[Kevin Werner]

2 into 1 intake? I am a total neophyte here. On the 360 degree motor each hole gets the same breathing time (negative and positive pressure) but with a 270 crank that all goes out the window it would seem. One rich cylinder and one lean.

 

[Jim]

2 into 1 intake? I am a total neophyte here. On the 360 degree motor each hole gets the same breathing time (negative and positive pressure) but with a 270 crank that all goes out the window it would seem. One rich cylinder and one lean.

Aren't Harleys single carb?

 

[jetmechmarty]

Aren't Harleys single carb?

I’ve been told that this leads to a richer charge on the rear cylinder thus helping cool it. Perhaps that’s fiction, but I’ve never had cause to research it. JAT

 

[BluzPlayer]

Hello Team Wicked

2 into 1 intake? I am a total neophyte here. On the 360 degree motor each hole gets the same breathing time (negative and positive pressure) but with a 270 crank that all goes out the window it would seem. One rich cylinder and one lean.

Aren't Harleys single carb?

I’ve been told that this leads to a richer charge on the rear cylinder thus helping cool it. Perhaps that’s fiction, but I’ve never had cause to research it. JAT

Hey guys..
Wicked is correct in that the lead cylinder leads the second cylinder by 83 degrees;
resulting in both cylinders pulling air at once on the intake stroke for a shared period of time. 97 degrees worth.
Lead cylinder gets 83 degrees of alone time during it's intake stroke before the other cylinder begins it's intake stroke.
Then the other cylinder gets 83 degrees of alone time during it's intake stroke as the lead cylinder begins it's compression stroke.
That should equate to equal charging of the 2 cylinders.

Same principle on a Harley.

 

[Kevin Werner]

Is that why they are 277 rather than the more obvious 270?

 

[Jim]

Is that why they are 277 rather than the more obvious 270?

277° is because of the spline shaft holding the two halves of the crank together. It only allows for a certain number of positions they can be "clocked" in relation to each other. 270° is ideal... 277° is the closest you can get to that with the stock spline.
Aftermarket spline shafts are available that allow for 270°, but are very spendy. So, most just settle for the 277° as a compromise between ideal and the pocketbook.

 

[BluzPlayer]

Is that why they are 277 rather than the more obvious 270?

No. The same principle applies to a 270.
The reason that the 277 is so popular with an xs650 is the way the cranks are made.
They are splined together in such a way that once you have pressed them apart,
half the crank can be rotated and pressed back together.
It just happens that the splines end up at 83/277 whichever way you view it.
There are some people that have machined a special center pin that allows you to twist the
crank to 270/90 but as that adds additional cost and the difference is negligible most opt for the 83/277.
Still an extra expense that many do not see as a worthy upgrade.
Since the sound of my motorcycle is as important as any other feature this mod is paramount for me.
There is also the reduction in vibration. Although there are many on this site that dispute or deny that.
The reality is... science doesn't lie. There is a definitive reduction in primary vibration albeit a slight
increase in the secondary vibrations. This easily demonstrated and available with simple searches.
This single topic has been discussed (argued??) endlessly within these pages.
There is no power to be made from a re-phase. Bottom line for me is the sound.
Hope that helped

Dang... Quick Draw Jim beat me to it.

 

[Jim]

From here. Not sure if they're still available?

 

[BluzPlayer]

So I have discussed my plan going forward.
It has not been my intention to be controversial.
It is most definitely my intention to be somewhat "different".
Anyways... There are a few things I will need to accomplish the plan:

An air compressor capable of delivering 110 lbs @12 psi continuously for long periods.
These cost over a grand for the cheap ones. I built mine for less than half.
I had a small 8 gal tank (8 gal?????? ) yes I hear you all scratching those heads already.
More head and shoulders please....
It is not about a big tank holding the pressure for you to bleed off of.
It is all about being about to continuously supply the need pressure.
Rigid has sold millions for the construction industry with only 9 gal from 2 tanks (4,5 each).
I added a big twin cylinder (what is it with me and twin cylinders?) pump.
Drive the pump with a 5hp 220v Electric motor.

Some pics of the conversion below

 

[BluzPlayer]

Obviously the parts are going to need to be cleaned.
Many many methods to choose from and I may just utilize them all.
By far the best (especially for finishing) is vapor blasting.
One must be careful to not blast internals obviously as well as other precautions.
However it is the a difference maker in finish.
Sand Blasting, Soda Blasting, Dry Glass Bead blasting, Wire wheels,,,,, etc etc
NO comparison.
The units are in the thousands.
I converted a HF blasting cabinet with great results for under $500 all new.
I have attached some pics of that project here as well.
I'll be happy answer any questions someone may have as this isn't a tutorial.

 

[GLJ]

The problem with a big pump on a small receiver is if is not matched to usage it can cycle the pump on and off to much. That can easily lead to motor overheating/burn out. Rigid had a specific reason for building those compressors. Portability on job sites.
You made a good choice on using a single stage pump for the pressure you want.
I bought a new compressor that puts out 11.5 cfm at 90 psi. Max pressure is 155, I have that set a 120 max. It also has a 60 gallon tank. Does not cycle a lot.
Out the door less than $400.

 

[BluzPlayer]

The problem with a big pump on a small receiver is if is not matched to usage it can cycle the pump on and off to much. That can easily lead to motor overheating/burn out. Rigid had a specific reason for building those compressors. Portability on job sites.
You made a good choice on using a single stage pump for the pressure you want.
I bought a new compressor that puts out 11.5 cfm at 90 psi. Max pressure is 155, I have that set a 120 max. It also has a 60 gallon tank. Does not cycle a lot.
Out the door less than $400.

Good points Greg.
Industrial motor made to run all day everyday.
The load factor with my pulley have the motor maxed at about 60% capacity.
As long as I keep fresh oil in the cylinders (Duh) this compressor will be running long after my lifetime and I intend to become a centurion,,, LOL.
Hope all is well with you. Looking forward to the time I am installing that one piece pushrod you made me.
Thanks

 

[BluzPlayer]

I will also be needing an oven to cook my powdercoating.
Something big enough to hold a frame, wheels, whatever.
I'm converting a metal rolling shelf assembly with the shelving removed.
It is about 4' wide. 4' tall. and about 2' deep.
The plan is to wrap it with some high R batting and in turn cover that with high R foam.
Build a door for the opening ( either hinged or removable) with a window and flap for shooting the temperature.
I got a working oven for nothing (guy upgraded his kitchen for his wife).
The wattage for the elements of that oven falls dead center of the range calculated for the cubic feet of the oven.
I had thought about using the oven controls, however good powdercoating really needs more exacting control of the temp.
I will be using a PID controller which should be able to maintain + or - 1 degree at 400.
Obviously the actual deviation may be more but the tighter I can start the tighter it will finish.
This project is soon to start. Most everything has been assembled.
For now I can only powdercoat and cook smaller parts.

 

[BluzPlayer]

Stripping the Hardtail....
Immediately notice the forks are not Yamaha.
Air assist, initial searches make it appear to me that they came from a Suzuki.
I do have the 77 forks to mod or I may go a different route all together.
As always I am open to ideas and or suggestions...
Clearly some more thought and study required.

 

[BluzPlayer]

Whoever built this bike ( Not sure if it was the PO) did a job so terrible I have no words.
Pictures say it all....