Hey all, I have an ‘83 650xs that I bought last year that had wiring issues with the original assembly (corroded wires) so I bought a replacement through Mike’s XS. I installed the new assembly and everything seemed to work less the turn signals; however, when I rode the other day the signals came on when I was at higher rpms. I have read several threads about similar issues; and most point to low voltage at idle being the cause and possibility of switching to LED’s, but rather keep the bike somewhat stock for the time being, so wondering if this can be fixed with a new battery or if there is some other wiring issue I am over looking. When I installed the new assembly, one of the ground wires wasn’t connected so I reconnected that, but the low voltage (I assume) issue still persists. Looking for something that might be the silver bullet here, thanks in advance.
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Turn Signal Issue
- Thread starter Keenbo
- Start date
Test your battery with a volt meter. Sitting your battery should read about 12.8 volts. Engine running at idle it will be the same or a little less because the XS charging system doesn't really work till the revs get up a bit. Rev to 3,000 revs and watch the volt climb to at least between 13.5 and 14 volts. Careful it does't climb to 15 volts or above, (hut it down), because that means your overcharging.
If you cant get to 13 volts at 3,00 revs your rotor could b faulty, in turn that could be your indicator problem.
Jim explains things better here in post #2 and 3
https://www.xs650.com/threads/rewound-alternator-rotor.54276/
If you cant get to 13 volts at 3,00 revs your rotor could b faulty, in turn that could be your indicator problem.
Jim explains things better here in post #2 and 3
https://www.xs650.com/threads/rewound-alternator-rotor.54276/
I have a similar issue by the sound of it. The indicator lights come on but they don't flash. The battery I installed is new but wasn't fully charged. I'll be charging it today and I think that will fix the non flashing problem.
OK, I've fixed my turn signal issue while the battery was charging on my bike.
How to wire a CF14 load independent flasher relay to an XS650.
Caveat - I am not an electrician. This works for me, there's probably other ways that work too. Follow my instructions at your own risk.
I wanted to replace the 47 year old flasher unit with a modern load independent flasher unit. One that isn't so fussy about battery voltage and works with any type of indicator bulb. I already had a new CF14 lying on the shelf so I used it. I also took the opportunity of removing the 47 year old indicator auto cancelling gubbins.
Remove the original relay and note the wires brown = switched live, brown/white is load. In my case yellow/green was found not to work with the moden relay and is going to be insulated and pushed out of the way. It's left visible for the purpose on this thread.
Check the terminals on your new flasher unit. Brown goes to B+, brown/white goes to L and E- goes to ground.
In my installation, I swapped the brown terminal across in the three way push on connector as found on the original wiring. The brown/white terminal was in the correct place. The yellow/green terminal was removed and replaced with a new black ground wire that has a ring terminal at the ground end.
Having switched the wires over as above the new black wire was grounded at one of the coil mount screws as it was convenient.
I just plugged in the rewired three way terminal onto the new CF14 flasher, switched the ignition on and it works.
Perfect flash rate, no more issues with fussy battery voltage and it'll work with LED and regular bulbs. At the moment the regular bulbs are installed. The idiot lights flash correctly and there's no issue removing the old auto cancelling gubbins.
Now I just need to insulate the redundant yellow/green wire and tidy it all up.
Hope that helps someone. Picture -
How to wire a CF14 load independent flasher relay to an XS650.
Caveat - I am not an electrician. This works for me, there's probably other ways that work too. Follow my instructions at your own risk.
I wanted to replace the 47 year old flasher unit with a modern load independent flasher unit. One that isn't so fussy about battery voltage and works with any type of indicator bulb. I already had a new CF14 lying on the shelf so I used it. I also took the opportunity of removing the 47 year old indicator auto cancelling gubbins.
Remove the original relay and note the wires brown = switched live, brown/white is load. In my case yellow/green was found not to work with the moden relay and is going to be insulated and pushed out of the way. It's left visible for the purpose on this thread.
Check the terminals on your new flasher unit. Brown goes to B+, brown/white goes to L and E- goes to ground.
In my installation, I swapped the brown terminal across in the three way push on connector as found on the original wiring. The brown/white terminal was in the correct place. The yellow/green terminal was removed and replaced with a new black ground wire that has a ring terminal at the ground end.
Having switched the wires over as above the new black wire was grounded at one of the coil mount screws as it was convenient.
I just plugged in the rewired three way terminal onto the new CF14 flasher, switched the ignition on and it works.
Perfect flash rate, no more issues with fussy battery voltage and it'll work with LED and regular bulbs. At the moment the regular bulbs are installed. The idiot lights flash correctly and there's no issue removing the old auto cancelling gubbins.
Now I just need to insulate the redundant yellow/green wire and tidy it all up.
Hope that helps someone. Picture -
FANTASTIC INFO - thanks so much IBaLT - well done indeed!
Pete
(a fellow P.Eng. Mechanical Engineer)
Pete
(a fellow P.Eng. Mechanical Engineer)
So again, I know this is an older posting but I had a question or two. First, I will change to an electronic flasher as well, so this is great info - thanks!
Second, you mention insulating the yellow/green wire and that brings me to this question. The Y/G wire connects only to the self-cancelling module, so since you mentioned you removed that as well, I'd like to know how i.e. any jumpering, etc. required, and as well, how do the signals function now? The second part of my question centers on how the signals normally work e.g. the L or R switch is momentary and cancels either manually ( pushing the button in) or automatically by the self-cancelling module. But the momentary switch action suggests that the self-cancelling module "picks and seals" the R or L turn signal circuit, so with it not in-place and with the switch being momentary, how do the signals essentially stay "on"? Not trying to be a pita, just trying to better understand so I can remove the self-cancelling module as well if possible. Thanks!
Just insulate the unused Y/G and tuck it away. No jumpers required. Indicator switch works the same way it always did, just without any self cancelling function. Hope that helps.
It does help, thanks. So, if I understand correctly, the self-cancelling function will be disabled (via the Y/G wire now not connected from the flasher relay to the s-c module), but the actual s-c module was still retained i.e. it wasn't removed from the circuit(s). Or have I got it wrong? Thanks again.
The self cancelling module is completely removed from my bike. The speed sensor is still inside the speedometer but it won't do anything without the self cancelling unit. Leave the self cancelling unit on the bike if you wish. I chose to remove it.
So I want to add a little info that may be helpful to others. First, regardless of whether I wanted to keep the self cancelling function, it's moot...the self cancelling circuitry is not compatible with led-spec flasher relays. There is a long explanation on an XJ forum about this, but suffice to say that, unless you create your own bespoke device, it's not happening.
So, IBaLT was absolutely correct as to removing it. Further, his adaptation of a CF14 flasher relay is spot-on as well.
That said, I have seen other recommendations to just use any 2-pin led- compatible flasher relay between the brown and brown/white wire. In my experience, this does not work; the only 2-pin unit that I have been able to get to function successfully is the 2-pin unit type that includes a separate ground wire. And further, as in the case with IBaLT's CF14, 3-pin flashers will generally work if wired brown to the B or + pin, brown/white to the L pin, and then ground the C or - pin.
So, IBaLT was absolutely correct as to removing it. Further, his adaptation of a CF14 flasher relay is spot-on as well.
That said, I have seen other recommendations to just use any 2-pin led- compatible flasher relay between the brown and brown/white wire. In my experience, this does not work; the only 2-pin unit that I have been able to get to function successfully is the 2-pin unit type that includes a separate ground wire. And further, as in the case with IBaLT's CF14, 3-pin flashers will generally work if wired brown to the B or + pin, brown/white to the L pin, and then ground the C or - pin.
Good to hear and glad that my post was helpful.
slantedpillow
XS650 Member
I'm currently switching my blinkers and tail light over to LED. I have the CF14 flasher but am having a dickens of a time removing the wires from the connector. Any trick to it? I've tried pushing the small tabs it, I've tried pushing them out, but these will not budge!
Attachments
Actually, I used the 2-pin type with the separate ground wire, and am pretty sure I didn't remove and replace any pins. Instead, I just cleaned up the connector and "rotated" the flasher unit to align the proper pins in the connector and grounded the separate wire.
It seems you're aware of the little tabs on the terminals that retain the terminals in the connector. If you've pressed the the tabs in, the terminals can sometimes still not be easy to extract. They have been in there a long time. If you persist, they'll come out. Just be careful you don't pull the wire off the terminal while doing it.
Sorry I can't be more helpful.
With a small screwdriver or blade holding the tab put a spare blade connector in the plug socket and tap on that to loosen them.
slantedpillow
XS650 Member
Success!!
aholeinthewor1d
XS650 Member
Do you have a link to the one you used? I have an XJ650 but the flasher situation is the exact same. Trying to decide which relay to get and a two wire seems like the easiest as the separate ground shouldn't be needed.
This is the one I used:
https://www.amazon.com/AMFRNE-Flash...T1zcF9waG9uZV9zZWFyY2hfdGhlbWF0aWNfYnRm&psc=1
You will see that it does have a ground wire. I purchased two other solid state relays that were both 2-prong without a ground and I couldn't get either of them to work. As soon as I plugged in the 2-prong and grounded it, it worked a treat.
I think most people that have done the conversation successfully have either used a 2-prong with ground OR used a 3-prong in which one of the prongs is a ground. The connector needs reconfigured for this approach The third wire is originally connected to the flasher cancelling unit and it won't work with the LEDs anyway, so that frees up a position for the ground pin. I believe the solid state relay circuitry requires power (brown wire) and a ground (pin or separate wire) and then switches the output (brown/white wire) to flash.
https://www.amazon.com/AMFRNE-Flash...T1zcF9waG9uZV9zZWFyY2hfdGhlbWF0aWNfYnRm&psc=1
You will see that it does have a ground wire. I purchased two other solid state relays that were both 2-prong without a ground and I couldn't get either of them to work. As soon as I plugged in the 2-prong and grounded it, it worked a treat.
I think most people that have done the conversation successfully have either used a 2-prong with ground OR used a 3-prong in which one of the prongs is a ground. The connector needs reconfigured for this approach The third wire is originally connected to the flasher cancelling unit and it won't work with the LEDs anyway, so that frees up a position for the ground pin. I believe the solid state relay circuitry requires power (brown wire) and a ground (pin or separate wire) and then switches the output (brown/white wire) to flash.
BTW, I noted that you were trying to communicate with that fellow that posted about the XS850. Just be aware that his solution, while a good one, was only trying to find a way to retain the self-cancelling function in the absence of the NLA OEM flasher relay, not to (also) convert to LEDs.
