Bob Kelly III
Ranch Kid from way back,.... that got Old !
indeed ! I love the H2 750 Kawasaki tripple... but that is a 4 cyl !!!!! You have been doing some serious machining work ! WOW !
Bob.............
Bob.............
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Two stroke memories
- Thread starter Mailman
- Start date
That looks like a machinests pet project! What kind of a beastie is that?
It reminds me of this beautifully done one off Triump FOUR cylinder Trident. It looked like a factory effort.
It reminds me of this beautifully done one off Triump FOUR cylinder Trident. It looked like a factory effort.
Four cylinder Trident. Wouldn't that be a Quadent?
This has been done before but the motor on the bench is a RD 700.
Two RD 350 motors joined together. It is intended to go in our new outfit as we have reached the safe rear wheel HP limit for the XS powered unit.
A real TZ motor is completely out of our grasp we are not eccentric millionaires so we will try this out.
Initially it will be pretty tame with basically stock porting and a set of chambers, when we get it running and sorted we will then set about making it faster.
The wheels and brakes are largely sorted for our new outfit, we just need to build the motor and pipes then build the chassis around them.
Two RD 350 motors joined together. It is intended to go in our new outfit as we have reached the safe rear wheel HP limit for the XS powered unit.
A real TZ motor is completely out of our grasp we are not eccentric millionaires so we will try this out.
Initially it will be pretty tame with basically stock porting and a set of chambers, when we get it running and sorted we will then set about making it faster.
The wheels and brakes are largely sorted for our new outfit, we just need to build the motor and pipes then build the chassis around them.
Wow! That's impressive! So...you're building a single crankshaft and a single common case?
I'm fairly certain I speak for others when I say...WE NEED MORE PICTURES!
If you are interested in reading about this interesting build, here is a link.
https://www.motorcycleclassics.com/classic-british-motorcycles/triumph-quadrant
Yes it uses 3 labyrinth seals, using two pistons up two down to keep the ignition simple. It is going to be fun trueing the crank. The rods, bearings and pistons are not terribly expensive but multiplied by 4 it soon adds up.
Will post some more later I have to go to work now.
Will post some more later I have to go to work now.
Here are some more pictures of machining and marking up the RD cases. I must point out this is a
collaboration and I am not the brains of the operation by any means.
Marking out the cases
Boring out the seal mount at the alternator end.
Machining down the cases
Test fitting
Time to lose a gearbox and leave a support for an outrigger bearing
After a short visit to Mr Bandsaw, and tidy up on the mill.
Turning the alignment bars on centres very scary stuff for me.
Bars in situ and cases line up spot on. Sorry I don't have any pictures of machining the centre heads, and only a few of machining the barrels. I don't want to hijack this thread but if you are interested I will start a thread on the motor or the whole sidecar just say. Its not an XS so where should I start it? Also the above work took place over about 10 months.
collaboration and I am not the brains of the operation by any means.
Marking out the cases
Boring out the seal mount at the alternator end.
Machining down the cases
Test fitting
Time to lose a gearbox and leave a support for an outrigger bearing
After a short visit to Mr Bandsaw, and tidy up on the mill.
Turning the alignment bars on centres very scary stuff for me.
Bars in situ and cases line up spot on. Sorry I don't have any pictures of machining the centre heads, and only a few of machining the barrels. I don't want to hijack this thread but if you are interested I will start a thread on the motor or the whole sidecar just say. Its not an XS so where should I start it? Also the above work took place over about 10 months.
Attachments
Yes please, do start a thread. I don't know that it matters, but right here in the Lounge would work, or the Garage is appropriate as well going by the description in the index.
Speaking for myself, I'd love to see the entire project.
Speaking for myself, I'd love to see the entire project.
Posilutely!!!! This is a terrific piece of engineering - very impressive. Can’t wait to hear it run!!
I also really liked that Quadrent build - imagine if the Brits had evolved their traditional twins in the late 1960s (as they certainly should have) and used the key technologies to actually build something like that for production. If they could have contained costs and made it reliable and leak-free, they could have given the Z1 and big CBs some real competition. Ahh well.
Further to the two stroke story: in a recent classic bike magazine, there was a fascinating article about a guy who builds multi-cylinder ring-dings out of Kawasaki triple engine components. If I recall, he has done several 4s, and 5s and even a six and (I think) a seven cylinder bike. I can’t remember if the article said much about the ignition systems or sealing arrangements, but the bikes looked to be well sorted out with nice exhaust systems etc. and were said to be rideable (albeit with rather limited ground clearance for cornering).
When I was a boy, I worked in a MC shop around the time I got into bikes and one of the older guys had an Ariel Square Four (1950s era British touring bike - 1000 cc air-cooled vertical four cylinder engine with two crankshafts geared together - sort of like a Suzuki RG500 racer). The big Ariel ran and rode extremely nicely and I was very taken with it. You still see them at vintage MC rallies and they have a dedicated following. Terry Wolfe in London ON (the same chap RobinC is working with on his ‘78e rebuild) works on Ariel engines.
I’m sure Fred could also tell us a lot more about the Ariel than I can.
Speaking generally, a four-stroke is somewhat easier to deal with than a two-stroke because the crankcase sealing issues aren’t as critical. Rear cylinder cooling in a square engine format could be an issue if you tuned it for too much power, but with liquid cooling, it could be licked and even the air-cooled Ariel seemed to work fine. The Ariel used pushrods and had (I think) only one camshaft running in the block just above the crankshaft synchronizing gears. For induction, it had one fairly big carb behind the cylinder block that fed all four cylinders through a cast-in manifold and it even had the cutest little distributor with four plug wires coming off the top (you see it in the diagram above).
The owner I worked with could actually push down on the kick starter with one hand and easily start the bike from cold. It was the smoothest and quietest running motorcycle engine I’ve ever seen, except perhaps for a Gold Wing.
Later I actually drew-up a set of drawings for an “XS1300” version of the Ariel using two 650 engines in a new crankcase. I suspect it could have been made to work pretty well, if I’d had the money to build it.
At the time I did those drawings I was working in the West African oil patch for Schlumberger Int’l (a French oilfield services company) but when I was leaving on days-off, the drawings were stolen by a Nigerian border official who told me that they were “industrial secrets” and thus, not permitted to leave the country. @sshole. I was too tired and sick from malaria to argue with him and I didn’t have enough cash on me to bribe him...sad.
The beauty of these “square” engines is that they are very compact and have excellent reciprocating balance characteritistics - if you do the math, they run very smoothly with no extra balance shafts. The problems are complexity and cost and simply fitting everything in economicallly.
In any event, they do work. but proved to be just another technological dead end.
Pete
Signal ,
Yes please do start a thread! We find this engineering fascinating.
Pete,
That’s a good write up about that Ariel square four, I have read a lot about those engines, they really were a marvel.
Yes please do start a thread! We find this engineering fascinating.
Pete,
That’s a good write up about that Ariel square four, I have read a lot about those engines, they really were a marvel.
These days I get the wind up if the front end even gets light but this guy really has something to worry about.
Look away ken65.
Look away ken65.
Lindsay G
XS650 Enthusiast
Another vote for a thread of your project Signal.What part of the country are you in. Marlborough here.
Geezz - I had forgotten all about that post from way back then...7 months ago. As noted, this whole thing has been percolating for decades in my little 1 HP brain....
For some reason, I thought that the four strokes would be easier than the two strokes. I don't (now) think that is correct. The labyrinth seals on the cranks are simple compared to timing drives, cams and valves...etc.
For some reason, I thought that the four strokes would be easier than the two strokes. I don't (now) think that is correct. The labyrinth seals on the cranks are simple compared to timing drives, cams and valves...etc.
Bob Kelly III
Ranch Kid from way back,.... that got Old !
I for another would love to see the outcome of that monster engine your making Signal ! ...please put a link here so these old eyes can find it !
LOL......
keep up the good work .... and more power to ya !
.....
Bob.....
LOL......
keep up the good work .... and more power to ya !
.....
Bob.....
I will sort through and get a thread together. Things are proceeding but at glacial speed so updates will be infrequent.
Lindsay G I am in the Manawatu.
We will be riding at the Mike Pero Southern Classic in November come and say hello if you are there. We will be on the XS 650 outfit #250.
Lindsay G I am in the Manawatu.
We will be riding at the Mike Pero Southern Classic in November come and say hello if you are there. We will be on the XS 650 outfit #250.
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Lindsay G
XS650 Enthusiast
Lindsay G I am in the Manawatu.
We will be riding at the Mike Pero Southern Classic in November come and say hello if you are there. We will be on the XS 650 outfit #250.[/QUOTE]
Something just clicked. Are you or your mate PB75 on Trademe. If so I've bought a few bits off you, most recent were the chrome headlight /indicator spacers.
We will be riding at the Mike Pero Southern Classic in November come and say hello if you are there. We will be on the XS 650 outfit #250.[/QUOTE]
Something just clicked. Are you or your mate PB75 on Trademe. If so I've bought a few bits off you, most recent were the chrome headlight /indicator spacers.
Lindsay G
XS650 Enthusiast
Pete I knew a guy who owned an Arial square four and he reckoned the back carbs had a habit of icing up. He told me that when I was a kid and he had owned it many years before.
