Unable to set timing. Possible cam chain problem?

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cjv2001

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It's my first time messing with points and timing. My timing seems to be way too advanced. I have hooked up a small 12 v light to the points and no matter what, if i am at .016 - .012 feeler gauge, timing seems to be way too advanced even with new points put in. The new points seem to have a slight improvement but even then, way to advanced. the light for the right cylinder is coming out just past the advanced mark, much before the 15 - 13 degree angle and will not reach it no matter what adjustment I make to points plate.

It got me researching, and I saw @5twins mention in another post that if the right side advance pin is not pointing straight up or straight down at top dead center, the cam chain may be messed up. Is this something I can fix by tightening the chain? Or will I have to replace cam chain if that is the problem. Pictures below.

Thank you in advance pun intended
 

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That first picture is where the light comes on? Thats very retarded, not advanced. Advanced is to the left of the F mark, remember the engine turns over anti-clockwise so advance is in front of the F, retarded is past (to the right) of the F. Picture of the points might help, have the gaps been set correctly before attempting to adjust them? The 2nd picture of the ATU looks good. Once the points gaps are set correctly you should then be able to slacken the two big screws and rotate the whole plate clockwise to advance the timing to the F mark.
 

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Tiggertoo said:
That first picture is where the light comes on? Thats very retarded, not advanced. Advanced is to the left of the F mark, remember the engine turns over anti-clockwise so advance is in front of the F, retarded is past (to the right) of the F. Picture of the points might help, have the gaps been set correctly before attempting to adjust them? The 2nd picture of the ATU looks good. Once the points gaps are set correctly you should then be able to slacken the two big screws and rotate the whole plate clockwise to advance the timing to the F mark.
Click to expand...
Sorry, the left picture was just a pic where I was putting TDC, the light comes on way left, just past the first mark, way before the f mark. I’ll upload a photo today. The valve gaps have been set correctly, but no matter what I do with the points plate, no matter which way I turn it I can not get it to fire on the F. Am I setting TDC wrong possibly as well?
 
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With the plate all the way down to the retarded direction, even just before the F mark, it will stay illuminated and the timing will still be advanced. If that makes sense. I can take a video too. Ideally I want the timing between the first F mark and the one to the right to mark the 13 degree if I am correct. I tried at both 16 thou and 12 thou.
 
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If both your pic's were taken at the same time without rotating the crank then the ATU position is good. Looking closely you can see the locating pin is at the top which is correct when its at TDC. Post #4 confirms in this thread: https://www.xs650.com/threads/camshaft-timing-is-my-engine-timed-one-crankshaft-tooth-out.66347/
Can't tell for sure from the picture angle whether the camchain is off by one tooth, though that wouldn't explain why you can't get enough adjustment. With just one tooth out you should still be able to get it within the F marks. Have you checked & adjusted the camchain (it is the first thing that needs doing before setting up the points)?
 

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Are you referring in your statements to static timing or is this with a strobe??

If with a strobe, does it have an adjustment knob? Is it set at zero??

If static timing, check it with a strobe and confirm.
 
Tiggertoo said:
If both your pic's were taken at the same time without rotating the crank then the ATU position is good. Looking closely you can see the locating pin is at the top which is correct when its at TDC. Post #4 confirms in this thread: https://www.xs650.com/threads/camshaft-timing-is-my-engine-timed-one-crankshaft-tooth-out.66347/
Can't tell for sure from the picture angle whether the camchain is off by one tooth, though that wouldn't explain why you can't get enough adjustment. With just one tooth out you should still be able to get it within the F marks. Have you checked & adjusted the camchain (it is the first thing that needs doing before setting up the points)?
Click to expand...
gotcha thats good to know. I did loosen my cam chain recently. I am getting small movement and some clicking upon starting up for the first minute and then it stops. Is it possible that the chain is a tad too lose and it is preventing me from retarding it? I can post up a video of all of this today
 
WideAWAKE said:
Are you referring in your statements to static timing or is this with a strobe??

If with a strobe, does it have an adjustment knob? Is it set at zero??

If static timing, check it with a strobe and confirm.
Click to expand...
Static timing, Don't have access to a strobe at the moment.
 
How are you hooking up your timing light?
Did it run before you started timing it? If so the timing is not far off, there's something going on with the way you are testing.
There's two ways to hook up up a static timing bulb, one way times when the light comes on the other when it goes off.
Let's see a pic of the points side of the cam.
Where in Wisco?
gggGary in Baraboo.
 
gggGary said:
How are you hooking up your timing light?
Did it run before you started timing it? If so the timing is not far off, there's something going on with the way you are testing.
There's two ways to hook up up a static timing bulb, one way times when the light comes on the other when it goes off.
Let's see a pic of the points side of the cam.
Where in Wisco?
gggGary in Baraboo.
Click to expand...
Positive lead to the top points ( right side ) and then it turns off when points close, on when they open. Will post a pic when I work on it today. Bike did start up good and run good, but just wanted to get it exact(ish). I'm in Janesville, we talked a bit when I posted a few weeks ago trying to solve a lean running issue haha.
 
Silly me I think I figured it out, my cam chain was super loose so I retightened it and that seem to solve it. It seems harder to start now though so not sure what's up with that.
 
get a cheap timing light and a volt meter that has the dwell feature. Well worth it IMO

If you adjusted cam chain, you may be off on the timing.
Show pic of the points so we all can see where the adjustment screws are
 
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I think because a few months ago I over tightened it, then when I got the bike running I loosened it but loosened a little too much. Hopefully it stays now. Ill get a timing light and report back with a video.
 
Melnic said:
get a cheap timing light and a volt meter that has the dwell feature. Well worth it IMO

If you adjusted cam chain, you may be off on the timing.
Show pic of the points so we all can see where the adjustment screws are
Click to expand...
Will do, going to work on it again in about an hour. I set the points "correctly" after I just re-tightened the chain. Turns on right around that 13 degree mark to the right of the "F". on the left cylinder as well.
 
gggGary said:
My worry with the timing is that the front guide rubber let go. 'specially with your ran it tight then it got loose mentions.
If the guide lets go it often is waiting for you in the sump, and the oil looks metallic. as the chain rubs on the aluminum guide bracket.
Click to expand...
Gotcha I’ll do an oil change tomorrow and report back. Points are good now and chain is good so I’m hoping it’ll be okay!
 

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