Updating Electronics: Reg/Rec, Starter Relay, and Lights Questions.

[MplsMurr]

Hello All,

Hope everything is going well with you all. I have designed a new electronics box for my 1973 TX650. I figured that I will be messing with electronics I might as well update. Here we go:
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REG/REC COMBO:

I want to update from my separate regulator and rectifier units to a new combo. Now I understand that I can make the $20 separate units with time and all, but I think I want a combo. I was thinking of getting this:

https://www.mikesxs.net/parts/yamaha-xs650-solid-state-rectifier-regulator-70-79

From my understanding of what I read, I have to


Rectifier side (6 space connector)
3 yellow to 3 white
1 red to 1 red
1 green to 1 black

Regulator side (3 space connector)
orange to green
blue to brown
*add 2nd ground from base to bat(-)

**Please tell me if I am mistaken.**

**With that being said, what am I to do with my fuse?**

I am using this thread ( http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6564 ) as reference, which seems to do a damn good job, but I don't know what to do with the fuse.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
STARTER RELAY:

From my understanding, I need something with 30-40 amps and 12 V with 5 pins. Cool. I have seen people reccommend a ford, harley, lawn mower, and headlight relay. If I am not mistaken, the following means it will work for 80 amps and less. Is this correct? I was thinking this looked cool and would fit the criteria.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/26234120290...1&exe=13926&ext=35632&sojTags=exe=exe,ext=ext

My concerns with this are simple. Will it work? Please see image six (6) from the link above, I have NO idea of how I would connect this from my old/current starter relay.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you all in advance! Loving this community and all of the helpful words!

Much love,

Murr.

 

[retiredgentleman]

Hello All,

Hope everything is going well with you all. I have designed a new electronics box for my 1973 TX650. I figured that I will be messing with electronics I might as well update. Here we go:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REG/REC COMBO:

I want to update from my separate regulator and rectifier units to a new combo. Now I understand that I can make the $20 separate units with time and all, but I think I want a combo. I was thinking of getting this:

https://www.mikesxs.net/parts/yamaha-xs650-solid-state-rectifier-regulator-70-79

From my understanding of what I read, I have to


Rectifier side (6 space connector)
3 yellow to 3 white
1 red to 1 red
1 green to 1 black

Regulator side (3 space connector)
orange to green
blue to brown
*add 2nd ground from base to bat(-)

**Please tell me if I am mistaken.**

**With that being said, what am I to do with my fuse?**

I am using this thread ( http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6564 ) as reference, which seems to do a damn good job, but I don't know what to do with the fuse.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
STARTER RELAY:

From my understanding, I need something with 30-40 amps and 12 V with 5 pins. Cool. I have seen people reccommend a ford, harley, lawn mower, and headlight relay. If I am not mistaken, the following means it will work for 80 amps and less. Is this correct? I was thinking this looked cool and would fit the criteria.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/26234120290...1&exe=13926&ext=35632&sojTags=exe=exe,ext=ext

My concerns with this are simple. Will it work? Please see image six (6) from the link above, I have NO idea of how I would connect this from my old/current starter relay.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you all in advance! Loving this community and all of the helpful words!

Much love,

Murr.

IMHO, the Mikesxs unit is just a waste of 75 to 80 dollars, but its your money so go for it. Your single 20 amp fuse is wired from the battery + terminal to the junction of the ignition switch and the rectifier output. Look at the wiring diagrams in the "Tech" section, that's why they are there.

Starter Relay:
Is your present stock relay not working? The original stock parts on these bikes should not be thrown out, as they are high quality Japanese parts. Do not buy that relay you have as a link. If your present relay is not working, then you could buy the one from Mikesxs. However, the one that Mikesxs sells appears to be of low price/quality, and may not last a long time. Most of the products they sell are low quality.

Better to pay more money and buy a starter relay that is meant for a car or truck. They are heavy duty and good for 100+ amps.

 

[Brassneck]

Yes, they can be made separately and a lot cheaper. I too wanted a one unit reg/rec that was plug/play.

Mike's wants $104... I found this on Amazon for $70 about a year or more ago and it works great! http://www.amazon.com/1970-1981-YAM...&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00


...no additional ground, and I bolted it under the battery box where the old rectifier was. I don't recall adding a fuse? (Do check to make sure the connector wires match up to your stock wires as I recall one of the wires was reversed (pos/neg were in opposite spots) so I swapped the two pins on the unit to match the stock connector....took less than a minute to swap them.

Good luck!

 

[Joe hurley]

The negative battery terminal melted and I get a clicking noise from the voltage regulators when I touch the negative or positive cables to their respective posts on my 1976 xs650. Any suggestions?

 

[retiredgentleman]

The negative battery terminal melted and I get a clicking noise from the voltage regulators when I touch the negative or positive cables to their respective posts on my 1976 xs650. Any suggestions?

Its not in good taste to highjack another guys thread. You should delete your question here, and then start a new thread of your own. Once you do that I might have some suggestions.

 

[650Skull]

The negative battery terminal melted and I get a clicking noise from the voltage regulators when I touch the negative or positive cables to their respective posts on my 1976 xs650. Any suggestions?

What RG says.................

And i might add............Do an intro about your bike and its state of repair what year/model you have, what you have done to it, how was it working before and what, if any, have you done to it between when it was ok and now...................

 

[MplsMurr]

My stock electronics work fine and I would never toss the electronics. I just thought I should upgrade some stuff since the parts are roughly 43 years old, ya know?

I was having a hard time understanding the wiring of the rectifier. I did not get how to replace it to one with 5 pins? What I could use as heat sink? What I end up doing with the fuse?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bridge-Rect...868770?hash=item43e4e2aa22:g:izkAAOSwA4dWM4Fg

My understanding was to leave the fuse intact, break off a few brass or steel L-brackets and use that metal as heat sink, and then hook the three white wires coming from the stator to the new rec. The ground wire to ground the positive wire to the battery positive. I count four. What happens to the 5th wire? The red wire?

From my resource thread, I buy a VR-115 and...

Regulator....................... XS650 harness
orange & yellow.................brown (load side of ignition switch)
green...............................green (left outer brush)
black................................common black wire in harness or bare metal on frame.

Stock relay works fine as well. I just figured if I were updating components that I surly could/should updated the relay as well. Why was the ebay one in my original post bad? It is 80 amps, 12 V, 5 pins, and for cars/trucks. Is this one better?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Ford-St...ash=item1a06d60336:g:K5kAAOSwAuNW6xR4&vxp=mtr

 

[MplsMurr]

Brassneck, can you please expand on your wiring for the Amazon link. I am away from my bike right now, but should be able to check it in the morning.

 

[650Skull]

Some bridge rectifiers have the heat sink as a component.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/25A-1000V-Volt-Metal-Case-Bridge-Rectifier-with-Heatsink-QL25A/231523784365?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D35624%26meid%3D7ff5aeabd1a1480f8aa4eb1ce2f45f85%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D231291848914

Also a link to a thread on the Alternative Regulator and Bridge Rectifier.
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21485

*Note*.........Read the last post by RG on the first page..................Very important information relating to the regulators and their differences for the Points model and Factory TCI ignitions

 

[Brassneck]

Brassneck, can you please expand on your wiring for the Amazon link. I am away from my bike right now, but should be able to check it in the morning.

Sure, if you go this route you literally unplug your current (stock) Regulator and the rectifier from the wiring harness at their connectors. The amazon unit has the same connectors that will plug directly into your wiring harness...that's it.

The only thing you need to check is make sure that the wires from the harness match up to the same wires on the Amazon unit...I think the black wire and red wire were in the wrong spot in the unit's connector..so I unclipped the wires/pins out of the connector, and put them in their correct corresponding spot.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Brassneck]

Here's a pretty low quality video on pulling out pins on a connector. It's not a great video, but it explains it well enough I think:

 

[retiredgentleman]

My stock electronics work fine and I would never toss the electronics. I just thought I should upgrade some stuff since the parts are roughly 43 years old, ya know?

I was having a hard time understanding the wiring of the rectifier. I did not get how to replace it to one with 5 pins? What I could use as heat sink? What I end up doing with the fuse?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bridge-Rect...868770?hash=item43e4e2aa22:g:izkAAOSwA4dWM4Fg

My understanding was to leave the fuse intact, break off a few brass or steel L-brackets and use that metal as heat sink, and then hook the three white wires coming from the stator to the new rec. The ground wire to ground the positive wire to the battery positive. I count four. What happens to the 5th wire? The red wire?

From my resource thread, I buy a VR-115 and...

Regulator....................... XS650 harness
orange & yellow.................brown (load side of ignition switch)
green...............................green (left outer brush)
black................................common black wire in harness or bare metal on frame.

Stock relay works fine as well. I just figured if I were updating components that I surly could/should updated the relay as well. Why was the ebay one in my original post bad? It is 80 amps, 12 V, 5 pins, and for cars/trucks. Is this one better?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Ford-St...ash=item1a06d60336:g:K5kAAOSwAuNW6xR4&vxp=mtr

That alarm relay on ebay is not designed for starter motor duty. I suggest you stay with the original stock starter motor relay, but if you want to go with a new relay, then the Ford one would be a good one to use. They are rugged and reliable (and inexpensive).

Your posts indicate that you want to go "plug and play" for the rec/reg, so you should follow the information that Brassneck gives you.

 

[XSLeo]

On the 5 terminal rectifiers, three are the AC inputs, two are the DC outputs. The three white wires from the stator hook to the three AC terminals. A red wire from the DC positive to battery, a black wire from DC negative to ground.
The main fuse should be between the source of power, the battery and alternator and the rest of the electrical system.
The red wire from the rectifier should go straight to the battery positive. Run another red wire from battery positive to the main 20 amp fuse, from fuse the main switch. From there to other fuses, from each fuse to the circuit it protects.
Leo

 

[MplsMurr]

Brassneck, way to come through on that one! That video explained it quite well. Thanks!

Retired, thanks for clearing my confusion up.

XSLeo, I cannot but feel honored that you responded. I have read a whole lot of posts, threads, comments and what have you where you just happen to chime in and explain questions before I even knew to ask them. So thank you. Once again, you have answered my question. You are such an articulately helpful individual.

My only qualm is when you say "other fuses." I don't know if this is to mean I should add more fuses?

Thank you all for your help. I appreciate it. I will post my final choice (combo vs separate) and how I did it here when all is said and done.

Much love,
Murr.

 

[XSLeo]

Ok, On your 73 it came with just a main fuse. In 78 they started with the 4 fuse block. The 78E had a single fuse. The SE's had the 4 fuse block. This is according to the diagrams in the Clymer book.
If you have this book, on page 216/217 is the diagram for the 72/73 bikes. If you don't, then you can find a diagram for your bike in the "Some Wiring Diagrams " thread. The fuse is just off the battery. From there it runs over to a junction that splits and one side goes to the key switch, the other to the rectifier.
This is different than I described. In this set up, if the fuse blows and, this is a big AND, the rotor holds any residual magnetism the alternator will continue running the bike.
In the charging system troubleshooting section of the Clymer book, page 38 paragraph 2 it states "Start the engine and remove the housing and disconnect the fuse box wire going to the battery. Hook a voltmeter from the fuse holder to ground." It goes on about adjusting the mechanical regulator. I have tried this unplug the fuse thing on my 75. the bike always stops running. So I doubt if the fuse blows it would keep running.
If your wiring is stock I would leave it set up that way. It has worked fine for a lot of years.
If doing a complete rewire on your bike I would suggest changing it. This way if the main fuse does blow you know the bike can't keep running.
On the statement "From there to other fuses" is mostly for the later 4 fuse block bikes or a rewired bike. If you rewire, I would add more fuses. With just one fuse, when it blows you have to trouble shoot the entire electrical system to find the issue. With more fuses if a fuse blows you only have to troubleshoot the one circuit.
I'll post up a diagram I like. It starts with a basic points with separate reg and rec with the later TCI and combo reg/rec in boxes. Just swap around boxes to match what you have. For the E-start it is in the upper right corner.
This diagram has a 20 amp main fuse feeding the key switch the same way as stock, then the switch feeds 3 more 10 amp fuses that feed 3 circuits. One is for just the ignition, one is lighting the other is the rest of the electrics.
I have 6 fuses on my 75. The fuse box I bought at the auto parts store held 6 fuses.
With this set up, if your tail light shorts out and blows a fuse, it just the lights that quit.
This way you can still ride home to troubleshoot it there instead of on the roadside.
Leo